inherit
13
0
Feb 6, 2021 14:43:51 GMT -5
521
iheartseverus
356
Jun 21, 2016 22:19:44 GMT -5
June 2016
iheartseverus
|
Post by iheartseverus on Jun 30, 2016 20:43:22 GMT -5
Or, at least I hope think it does. The big reveal at the Tower of Joy was clear as could be to all of us, but then, we're hard-core geeks about the books and the show. Most of the viewing audience worldwide, is not. I'm gob-smacked these last few days since 6x10 to find how many people didn't understand the meaning of ToJ at all. I mean, seriously Did. Not. Get. It. I see comments like 'So who was the lady in the bed, a whore?' 'Wait, that's Ned's sister? So, he screwed his sister and she had a baby?' The showrunners didn't help themselves, I think, by making a big mystery of Lyanna saying 'His name is...' and leaving it there. Besides driving me to distraction, if she had said the name Aemon Targaryen or Whoever Targaryen, there wouldn't now exist this confusion among show-only viewers. After all, they've been told since Season 1 that Ned Stark is Jon's father, they believe that Ned Stark is Jon's father. I get it, the showrunners want to have this off-season's question be--Who. Is. Jon's. Father, or What. Is. Jon's. Real. Surname, much as they had the off-season before S6 question 'Will Jon Come Back from the Dead?' But if that is the case, if we in fact see HBO pushing the 'Who Is Jon's Father' theme during this off-season, then it logically follows they're going to have to explain in S7 exactly who that father is and how it came about that he and Lyanna Stark ended up having a child together. It won't do for them to just have someone or other pop up and name Rhaegar Targaryen, because again, half the viewing audience on earth will be like Wut? Who?
I think all this confusion can be cleared up pretty quickly (the show having lots of other stuff to address in a shortened-season) via Bran's vision of the Tourney of Harrenhal and perhaps a later, short scene of a loving embrace between Rhaegar and Lyanna. It might be too much to hope that we'll also get the Robert-Rhaegar duel at the Trident, however briefly, culminating in Rhaegar's death. But if there is any clue to be gained during the upcoming months of production, we know we have a couple of the best Sherlock Holmes, CSI leak-detectives in the GoT universe right here at this board. If there's a clue to be had, they'll find it and we'll have it. Can't wait!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
29
0
May 5, 2024 20:54:24 GMT -5
Deleted
0
May 5, 2024 20:54:24 GMT -5
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2016 20:55:46 GMT -5
I'm certainly very hopeful for it I've said in another thread but I think the minimum characters they'll need would be Rhaegar, Elia, Ned and Lyanna. Since the latter two and Aerys have already been cast, there's even less work required. I'm hopeful that since they included Rickard Stark in the Winterfell flashbacks, then they'll give us Brandon and Robert at Harrenhal You wouldn't really need many of them to speak. Elia, for example, could most likely be silent. IIRC Littlefinger said he was there so he's another possibility. I need to not get too obsessed about this, or I'll be absolutely gutted if it doesn't show up
|
|
Nezzer
Moondancer
GRRM wrote carefully, GRRM wrote properly, GRRM wrote logically. And GRRM couldn't finish the book.
@nezzer
Posts: 1,168
Likes: 1,982
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 2 Time Winner
inherit
27
0
Jul 3, 2019 8:18:51 GMT -5
1,982
Nezzer
GRRM wrote carefully, GRRM wrote properly, GRRM wrote logically. And GRRM couldn't finish the book.
1,168
Jun 23, 2016 13:20:55 GMT -5
June 2016
nezzer
2 Time Winner
|
Post by Nezzer on Jun 30, 2016 20:56:37 GMT -5
Yeah, they have to show Rhaegar now. Pls D&D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
14
0
May 5, 2024 20:54:24 GMT -5
Deleted
0
May 5, 2024 20:54:24 GMT -5
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 4:27:31 GMT -5
I think it would be great to see the tourney. but not too necessary. I imagine Bran will explain it all.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
26
0
May 5, 2024 20:54:24 GMT -5
Deleted
0
May 5, 2024 20:54:24 GMT -5
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 5:58:16 GMT -5
Yeah, they have to show Rhaegar now. Pls D&D I wouldn't mind if see more of him, but only Rhaegar flashback I need is Bobby B killing that jerk. Maybe we see Howland Reed at Harrenhal too?
|
|
inherit
13
0
Feb 6, 2021 14:43:51 GMT -5
521
iheartseverus
356
Jun 21, 2016 22:19:44 GMT -5
June 2016
iheartseverus
|
Post by iheartseverus on Jul 1, 2016 10:36:09 GMT -5
I see that some Redditors agree with this--this post has more than 350 responses. And then there's this one--which I pretty much agree with!
|
|
Envie
Vhagar
"If I look back I am lost."
@envie
Posts: 5,270
Likes: 8,484
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 1 Time Winner
inherit
4
0
Jul 4, 2019 18:53:32 GMT -5
8,484
Envie
"If I look back I am lost."
5,270
Jun 21, 2016 11:00:44 GMT -5
June 2016
envie
1 Time Winner
|
Post by Envie on Jul 1, 2016 11:43:49 GMT -5
While I do agree the Tower of Joy scene was far more rewarding and emotional for those of us who read the books and have waited such a long time to see the theory come to reality, I disagree that it was too confusing and that show-only fans have no idea who Rhaegar was. I have two family members who both picked it up easily (without my help) and I've read lots of great articles and reviews from show only fans who are quite intelligent and easily recalled all the times they talked about him ... whether is was Robert Baratheon way back in Seasons 1 and 2, or Barristan and Dany in several seasons or Littlefinger and Sansa ... Rhaegar was discussed quite a few times and the name has been used often and descriptively over the seasons. You would have to be a very casual watcher to have forgotten all of that and have no idea who Rhaegar is for the Tower of Joy scenes.
Could it have been done differently? Probably. I'm still in the camp that felt it should have been all one scene or at the very least the same episode but I understand why they held it off until the finale for the impact it had just before Jon's King in the North scene.
|
|
alcasinoroyale
King of Winter
@alcasinoroyale
Posts: 5,387
Likes: 7,621
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 4 Time Winner
#021f7c
5
0
1
Aug 26, 2022 20:49:12 GMT -5
7,621
alcasinoroyale
5,387
Jun 21, 2016 11:59:24 GMT -5
June 2016
alcasinoroyale
4 Time Winner
|
Post by alcasinoroyale on Jul 1, 2016 16:16:49 GMT -5
I'm certainly very hopeful for it I've said in another thread but I think the minimum characters they'll need would be Rhaegar, Elia, Ned and Lyanna. Since the latter two and Aerys have already been cast, there's even less work required. I'm hopeful that since they included Rickard Stark in the Winterfell flashbacks, then they'll give us Brandon and Robert at Harrenhal You wouldn't really need many of them to speak. Elia, for example, could most likely be silent. IIRC Littlefinger said he was there so he's another possibility. I need to not get too obsessed about this, or I'll be absolutely gutted if it doesn't show up I think a Young Barristan at the Tourney would also be cool. It depends how long the flashback would be.
|
|
ladystoneboobs
Syrax
Outlived your faves for nearly 72 eps.
@ladystoneboobs
Posts: 2,006
Likes: 3,273
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 1 Time Winner
inherit
32
0
May 24, 2019 19:21:11 GMT -5
3,273
ladystoneboobs
Outlived your faves for nearly 72 eps.
2,006
Jun 25, 2016 17:54:15 GMT -5
June 2016
ladystoneboobs
1 Time Winner
|
Post by ladystoneboobs on Jul 1, 2016 18:13:31 GMT -5
I'm just glad Ashara Dayne doesn't seem to exist in showverse because I have such an irrational dislike of that character.
|
|
inherit
13
0
Feb 6, 2021 14:43:51 GMT -5
521
iheartseverus
356
Jun 21, 2016 22:19:44 GMT -5
June 2016
iheartseverus
|
Post by iheartseverus on Jul 1, 2016 23:11:11 GMT -5
I don't think the fact that many viewers didn't understand the significance of ToJ means they weren't paying attention or were just being dense or whatever. I can't judge what show-only viewers grasp or fail to grasp, of course, since I know the books. But I saw this post at another board from someone who loves the show and whose opinions I respect, and I think it pretty much sums up the issue.
I agree. This is a leviathan of a story. Not so much for those of us who are book-readers, we made our way inch by inch through the leviathan books, but for show-only viewers. The show needs the Tourney at Harrenal to explain all this backstory. My 2 cents.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
26
0
May 5, 2024 20:54:24 GMT -5
Deleted
0
May 5, 2024 20:54:24 GMT -5
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 8:14:29 GMT -5
They really shouldn't have cut the ToJ in half. The whole thing should've been included in 6x03 and the cut from the baby would've transferred to Jon's face before Edd tells him it's time to hang the mutineers.
My father (who's just a show watcher) understood that Lyanna is Ned's sister and Jon is her son. But he didn't get who the father was, and though that this was to show that Ned wasn't dishonourable and that Jon truly is a trueborn Stark. After I told him that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, he was curious why Lyanna would want Ned to protect Jon if he was product of rape.
|
|
Envie
Vhagar
"If I look back I am lost."
@envie
Posts: 5,270
Likes: 8,484
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 1 Time Winner
inherit
4
0
Jul 4, 2019 18:53:32 GMT -5
8,484
Envie
"If I look back I am lost."
5,270
Jun 21, 2016 11:00:44 GMT -5
June 2016
envie
1 Time Winner
|
Post by Envie on Jul 4, 2016 9:43:23 GMT -5
They really shouldn't have cut the ToJ in half. The whole thing should've been included in 6x03 and the cut from the baby would've transferred to Jon's face before Edd tells him it's time to hang the mutineers. My father (who's just a show watcher) understood that Lyanna is Ned's sister and Jon is her son. But he didn't get who the father was, and though that this was to show that Ned wasn't dishonourable and that Jon truly is a trueborn Stark. After I told him that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, he was curious why Lyanna would want Ned to protect Jon if he was product of rape. I completely agree cutting Tower of Joy in half was not the best choice. I understand why they did it - for the impact it had on Jon becoming King in the North, and because they wanted the Three Eyed Raven to be with him in the first few scenes/visions to show that Bran is not ready yet and still being guided - plus the Wylis/Hodor introduction ... but still, it did cause a gap in between the two significant halves of the story that may have confused some viewers. I bounced this off my half brother and eldest son over the weekend camping trip and both of them understood who Rhaegar was and why the kingsguard were wearing Targaryen armor, but only my elder son thought Rhaegar and Lyanna ran away together where my half brother thought she had actually been kidnapped and the kingsguard were holding here there against her will. Hopefully that question will be resolved next season. I agree a tourney flashback would fill the bill as would them leaving together and whatever happened in nearly a year since her pregnancy was full term when Lyanna had Jon.
|
|
inherit
43
0
Jul 14, 2016 14:30:29 GMT -5
20
rumystark
11
Jul 4, 2016 13:02:14 GMT -5
July 2016
rumystark
|
Post by rumystark on Jul 4, 2016 15:50:33 GMT -5
They really shouldn't have cut the ToJ in half. The whole thing should've been included in 6x03 and the cut from the baby would've transferred to Jon's face before Edd tells him it's time to hang the mutineers. My father (who's just a show watcher) understood that Lyanna is Ned's sister and Jon is her son. But he didn't get who the father was, and though that this was to show that Ned wasn't dishonourable and that Jon truly is a trueborn Stark. After I told him that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, he was curious why Lyanna would want Ned to protect Jon if he was product of rape. I completely agree cutting Tower of Joy in half was not the best choice. I understand why they did it - for the impact it had on Jon becoming King in the North, and because they wanted the Three Eyed Raven to be with him in the first few scenes/visions to show that Bran is not ready yet and still being guided - plus the Wylis/Hodor introduction ... but still, it did cause a gap in between the two significant halves of the story that may have confused some viewers. I bounced this off my half brother and eldest son over the weekend camping trip and both of them understood who Rhaegar was and why the kingsguard were wearing Targaryen armor, but only my elder son thought Rhaegar and Lyanna ran away together where my half brother thought she had actually been kidnapped and the kingsguard were holding here there against her will. Hopefully that question will be resolved next season. I agree a tourney flashback would fill the bill as would them leaving together and whatever happened in nearly a year since her pregnancy was full term when Lyanna had Jon. I think part of the reason they cut it in half is because it was the scene that established Bran might have an effect on the past, which opened up the possibility for everything that happened in The Door. And clearly they wanted Lyanna as Jon's mother to be a huge reveal at the end of the season, so it was split. I think that would have worked a lot better if they'd included different, other backstory in there, even in a fragmented way. Like a brief scene of Harrenhal (Rhaegar crowning Lyanna for example), or even Lyanna telling Ned that loving her wouldn't keep Robert from other people's beds, or even like Young Ned's reaction to hearing Rhaegar had taken Lyanna. Just other small things to set up the whole TOJ and remind people what was going on there and why it mattered. Alas. I do hope we get Harrenhal in Season 7. I'm not totally sure we will because I think how the TOJ was dealt with in Season 6 suggests they aren't nuts about spending a lot of time on that particularly history, but now that they've connected the dots to Jon I think they really have to do more backstory. Here's hoping.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
29
0
May 5, 2024 20:54:24 GMT -5
Deleted
0
May 5, 2024 20:54:24 GMT -5
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 23:36:46 GMT -5
They really shouldn't have cut the ToJ in half. The whole thing should've been included in 6x03 and the cut from the baby would've transferred to Jon's face before Edd tells him it's time to hang the mutineers. My father (who's just a show watcher) understood that Lyanna is Ned's sister and Jon is her son. But he didn't get who the father was, and though that this was to show that Ned wasn't dishonourable and that Jon truly is a trueborn Stark. After I told him that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, he was curious why Lyanna would want Ned to protect Jon if he was product of rape. I'd been thinking about this, and while I'm not fully against the idea of splitting it in half, I feel like it could've been 'continued' better. Like me if when Brab touches the Weirwood in 610, we could've have a sort of "flashback/jumpcuts" kind of scene with voice-overs if Dayne and Ned saying "our prince wanted us here" and "where's my sister", just to push the relationship between the characters a bit further. Just jumping straight back into it again was a mistake that could've been avoided. I don't really agree though that it should've been in 603 before the execution; I feel like a reveal that early on then just moving on wouldn't have worked as well as it did in 610
|
|
Maesteress
Drogon
@maesteress
Posts: 500
Likes: 712
inherit
49
0
May 31, 2019 10:42:39 GMT -5
712
Maesteress
500
Jul 10, 2016 19:05:51 GMT -5
July 2016
maesteress
|
Post by Maesteress on Jul 11, 2016 13:55:26 GMT -5
I'm just glad Ashara Dayne doesn't seem to exist in showverse because I have such an irrational dislike of that character. So funny! I do too! Completely irrational, but can't stand the character!! For unsullied, the TOJ reveal was very murky. Some I've spoken to completely missed who Jon's father is insinuated to be - so that tells me they are going to have to clarify all of that in S7, which makes me VERY hopeful that we'll finally meet Rhaegar (is there a Hemsworth brother we haven't met yet hiding in the shadows with lucious blond locks waiting to make his screen debut? Pretty please? LOL) and more importantly to me, finally make it clear there was no rape, there was no kidnapping - that this was two people in love who's romance started the entire series in motion.... We need to BOLO those casting calls this summer....
|
|