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Post by iheartseverus on Jul 19, 2017 22:53:54 GMT -5
I'm sure I'm missing something here--obviously that dagger will be significant in coming episodes. But, is it the same dagger with which the assassin tried to kill Bran?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2017 22:54:35 GMT -5
I'm sure I'm missing something here--obviously that dagger will be significant in coming episodes. But, is it the same dagger with which the assassin tried to kill Bran? Yes.
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Post by archanabrownwalker on Jul 20, 2017 4:04:37 GMT -5
I don't think a dagger would be a very practical choice of weapon against a WW. You're not sneaking up on them assassin style, or getting in close enough The biggest reason the wildlings were defenseless against the WW is the unbearable cold that comes with them. It is near impossible to fight the WW without being hampered by the extreme cold air. Tormund explains this to Jon in ADWD, Apart from that, it would very anti-climactic and ludicrous if someone can just sneak upon on the NK or WW in general and kill them with daggers. The only reason Sam was able to stab the WW is because the WW did not expect Sam to have dragonglass. Now they are alert, there is no chance of that happening again.
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Post by moiaf on Jul 20, 2017 4:54:12 GMT -5
I don't think a dagger would be a very practical choice of weapon against a WW. You're not sneaking up on them assassin style, or getting in close enough (unless she poses as another WW ) to use it. Melting it down to reforge Needle would make so much more sense. The only way I can see it being used against the Others at an important moment is if the gang captures the Night's King and stabs him in the heart with the dagger the way he was stabbed with the dragonglass. Other than that I can see how a dagger would be a very good weapon during a battle. It's quite impractical.
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Post by atimeforwolves on Jul 20, 2017 5:54:22 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2017 5:56:36 GMT -5
...unless of course Arya's assassin skills come in handy in S8 and she does kill the NK in that way. This is entirely speculation of course. Maybe the NK is killed by a different character (Jon or Dany come to mind), but IMO Arya would be fitting considering the themes in her storyline ("death") and the fact that her training still needs to be useful in a way that goes beyond a simple revenge story. But that would also be possible if they reforged Needle. It doesn't have to be the dagger. I just wouldn't exclude the possibility of Arya sneaking up on the NK in the midst of battle. I don't think that would be so absurd. In fact, it seems far more likely to me than a proper fight between Arya and a White Walker.
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Post by Envie on Jul 20, 2017 6:22:09 GMT -5
I don't think that would be so absurd. In fact, it seems far more likely to me than a proper fight between Arya and a White Walker. Can Arya wear the face of a White Walker? That would be the next question I ask if any of this theory about the dagger were to make sense. Arya probably couldn't sneak up or get close enough to one or the Night King to use the dagger effectively as others have already pointed out. But if Arya could fool them the way she has everyone else with the faces ... well there's a potential. I've never really considered Arya a candidate for killing the Night King though I do think she'll fight them with Jon and everyone else when the time comes. Her skills will be useful for sure.
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Post by Basil on Jul 20, 2017 6:34:09 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2017 6:38:10 GMT -5
I don't think that would be so absurd. In fact, it seems far more likely to me than a proper fight between Arya and a White Walker. Can Arya wear the face of a White Walker? That would be the next question I ask if any of this theory about the dagger were to make sense. Arya probably couldn't sneak up or get close enough to one or the Night King to use the dagger effectively as others have already pointed out. But if Arya could fool them the way she has everyone else with the faces ... well there's a potential. I've never really considered Arya a candidate for killing the Night King though I do think she'll fight them with Jon and everyone else when the time comes. Her skills will be useful for sure. I don't know if Arya can wear the face of a White Walker. But I've never seen Arya as a soldier, that's why I have trouble imagining her killing WWs in open battle. I think we are more likely to see her assassin skills being used somehow. Furthermore, I've also trouble imagining the NK in a 1:1 sword-fight against Jon or someone else. That's why I always imagine his death scene to be more like an assassination. Arya would be the perfect candidate for that. She is small, she has the training and it doesn't hurt that her storyline has largely been about death and overcoming death, considering that D&D have been on record calling the NK "death itself". I also really like the parallels this could have to the LotR saga. We know GRRM was inspired by Tolkien. I'm putting this in spoiler tags, because I know that not everyone here shares my enthusiasm for LotR/GoT parallels, especially if they are still completely speculative. So if you don't like that kind of stuff, feel free to ignore it. However, it's safe to read if you are avoiding spoilers. There are no spoilers in this: First of all, Arya killing the NK would be very reminiscent of Eowyn killing the Witch-King of Angmar. It was not Aragorn or even Gandalf who killed him, but a more "unlikely" candidate. I could see something similar happen here too. Furthermore, it also reminds me of how Frodo, the smallest hero in the story, sneaked up on Sauron and destroyed the ring while Sauron was busy with Aragorn. Remember how Frodo and Sam wore those orc uniforms to disguise themselves? The villain was so distracted by Aragorn, who seemed to be the biggest threat to him, that he underestimated/forgot anyone else. I imagine the Night King will have a very similar reaction to Jon and Dany. What if he gets distracted too?
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Post by Envie on Jul 20, 2017 9:02:01 GMT -5
I do love the LotR comparison @kairos and it has merit as a possible theory. I know a lot of fans will groan at that but we already know George has confessed plenty of times to the influence Tolkien had on him growing up. He's also said plenty of times how he didn't like certain aspects of the story such as Gandolf's return from apparent death, etc. and ways he feels he's improving on the typical fantasy story. But as we've all discussed in the past, at the end of the day, this is still a typical fantasy story wrapped in a rather brutal exterior shell Lord of the Rings didn't have. The concepts are still the same and the outcome is likely going to be similar. I won't go into specifics but I see there being potential for Arya or Bran to be instrumental in defeating the Night King and not Jon "the hero" or Dany "the savior" at all ... they are the leaders who will organize it all and make it happen and without them it wouldn't be possible but It's highly likely they don't actually end it. *Edit: This should probably all be moved over to the endgame/season 8 speculation thread though.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Jul 20, 2017 9:41:15 GMT -5
IN regards to the dagger:
For right now we know it will play an important part in this season, otherwise why put it so prominent in the marketing? I believe this is what Arya looks for in the promo pictures which appears to be LF's room, as the Smoking Gun so to speak. There is no other way for Arya to obtain the dagger, which we know was last in Little Restraining Order's possession. I also wonder if Bran can 'read' objects like he can the weirwood net. It would be cool if he could touch it and know its history from forge to Ned's betrayal.
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Post by Envie on Jul 20, 2017 9:49:21 GMT -5
IN regards to the dagger: For right now we know it will play an important part in this season, otherwise why put it so prominent in the marketing? I believe this is what Arya looks for in the promo pictures which appears to be LF's room, as the Smoking Gun so to speak. There is no other way for Arya to obtain the dagger, which we know was last in Little Restraining Order's possession. I also wonder if Bran can 'read' objects like he can the weirwood net. It would be cool if he could touch it and know its history from forge to Ned's betrayal. The dagger is definitely a smoking gun and the 'kids' need to piece this together because sadly their parents both died before this information could fully be understood as to who tried to kill Bran. Unless Catelyn or Maester Luwyn left notes somewhere (I doubt that), no one knows what they found out about that dagger. Bran's most likely going to use the 'weirnet' in this case as he's already using it to find things out ... that was the point of telling Edd he knew about the Fist of the First Men and Hardhome.
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Post by Singer of Death on Jul 20, 2017 10:39:54 GMT -5
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Post by TheMadQueen on Jul 20, 2017 10:43:08 GMT -5
^^OH MY GOD THATS AWESOME.
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Post by day dreamer on Jul 20, 2017 11:11:38 GMT -5
I like the idea of Gendry melting down the dagger and covering Needle with it, personally.
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