ladystoneboobs
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Jul 21, 2017 19:29:13 GMT -5
Clearly you're forgetting about Cleganebowl. Sandor seeing a mountain in the flames? They're practically throwing the hints in our faces! It only seemed odd to me that Sandor could so clearly see these visions the very first time he looks into the flames. I thought it took a lot of practice and priestess training for Melisandre to be able to even see a glimmer of visions that were mostly not entirely correct or skewed. Sandor's a greater Red Priest than Melisandre it seems! Didn't Stannis see stuff on his first try as well? It doesn't seem like a very hard thing to do. Both Sandor and Stannis only had to "keep looking" to recieve a vision. Makes me wonder if anyone sees visions by accident if they look at a fire too long mark my words if cleganebowl never happens that mountain line was just a joke on the fans. yeah, stannis saw on his first try too. and this was at the lowest point of his relationship with r'hllor, right after he choked mel and asked where her god was. mel showed selyse something too in s4.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Jul 21, 2017 20:10:54 GMT -5
Awesome find. I was hoping that drawing would have something to do with the seasons, too But this is still cool. I always loved the theory that the maesters are stalling progress in some way. Maybe the show will confirm it (or not.) That's one of my favorites too. As they 'doubt everything', they will deny the existence of the Walkers until they march through the front doors of the Citadel.
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Post by shella the bear on Jul 21, 2017 23:07:01 GMT -5
Anyone else find it slightly odd that all of the Lord of Light visions have to do with ice/the Night King/the army of the dead? Is there nothing else on his mind? I'm starting to think these visions are sent by the Night King tbh. LEAK SPOILERS The vision in this episode lures everyone into going to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea. Yet no one gains anything from that except the Night King: he gets a dragon. The wight could have been captured anywhere else. Hmmm.... I guess they could also be sent by Bran, or maybe the flames just intercept the visions of the Three-Eyed Raven and nobody "sends" them. Either way, I doubt the Lord of Light exists and is sending these things. In the books, Melisandre sees a vision of Bran (as a wolf) with Bloodraven and thinks that they are the "Great Other", so I definitely don't think Bran or anyone in the weirdwood net sends the visions seen in the flames. I tend to think that the Lord of Light and the Great Other and the Old Gods and basically any Gods are all the same thing if they even exist, but I also don't think it's anything we'll ever truly learn the specifics of.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 0:51:37 GMT -5
Clearly you're forgetting about Cleganebowl. Sandor seeing a mountain in the flames? They're practically throwing the hints in our faces! Didn't Stannis see stuff on his first try as well? It doesn't seem like a very hard thing to do. Both Sandor and Stannis only had to "keep looking" to recieve a vision. Makes me wonder if anyone sees visions by accident if they look at a fire too long mark my words if cleganebowl never happens that mountain line was just a joke on the fans. yeah, stannis saw on his first try too. and this was at the lowest point of his relationship with r'hllor, right after he choked mel and asked where her god was. mel showed selyse something too in s4. He saw a battle in the snow didn't he? It doesn't actually specify if this was his battle or they are all seeing the same battle, the end battle.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 3:22:48 GMT -5
Also, the Archmaester's traditionalist view that things will stay as they are will prove to be important imo. I think this is a clue that nothing will stay as it is once the show is done--not only will the Wall fall, but the monarchy and the whole system will probably be toppled as well. Oldtown seems to represent the old status quo same as King's Landing and the Night's Watch, so they're probably screwed. They're just more intellectual about it. Euron will probably fuck the Oldtown up in the books, but what about in the show? Does the show have time for that?
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afarouk07
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Post by afarouk07 on Jul 22, 2017 9:13:20 GMT -5
Ned Umber is carrying the same sword Greatjon used to name Robb King in the North back in season 1, and that Smalljon used to fight against the Starks in season 6. Must be their family sword.
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Diablotion
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Post by Diablotion on Jul 22, 2017 10:58:10 GMT -5
Ned Umber is carrying the same sword Greatjon used to name Robb King in the North back in season 1, and that Smalljon used to fight against the Starks in season 6. Must be their family sword. I really doubt that it's exactly the same sword. Greatjon and Smalljon were huge men and the swords were pretty big. Ned Umber couldn't even lift his fathers or grandfathers sword. It's a similar model though.
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lordcarson
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Post by lordcarson on Jul 22, 2017 11:15:46 GMT -5
Ned Umber is carrying the same sword Greatjon used to name Robb King in the North back in season 1, and that Smalljon used to fight against the Starks in season 6. Must be their family sword. Same style. Not the same size. Greatjon's sword would be the same height as Ned.
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ladystoneboobs
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Jul 22, 2017 13:44:32 GMT -5
mark my words if cleganebowl never happens that mountain line was just a joke on the fans. yeah, stannis saw on his first try too. and this was at the lowest point of his relationship with r'hllor, right after he choked mel and asked where her god was. mel showed selyse something too in s4. He saw a battle in the snow didn't he? It doesn't actually specify if this was his battle or they are all seeing the same battle, the end battle. I always assumed it was the attack on the Fist of the First Men, which happened in the same ep, and I think he gives Davos more details in the book which point in that direction. I think Mel's Winterfell visions prob happened at the Wall, she mentioned it to Stannis like he hadn't heard before.
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Post by izzue on Jul 22, 2017 17:46:29 GMT -5
This post goes back to the tumbir link moiaf posted on the previous page, but in following that link and then a couple of others, I got to a July 15 westeros posting called "Hey, y'all, I made a Mythical Astronomy video". Sounds pretty dumb, but it's actually a fascinating 17 minute video linking Martin's symbolism, the Red Comet, the birth of Dany's dragons, the story of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa all into an expose on What Caused the Long Night. It's one of those that takes more concentration than I was able to give it at first listen, but it's amazing, especially as we're looking at Winter and the Storm that the WW's bring. Shortcut to it is here: asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/146971-hey-yall-i-made-a-mythical-astronomy-video/#comment-7970211
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Post by TheArchmaester on Jul 22, 2017 17:55:28 GMT -5
Also, the Archmaester's traditionalist view that things will stay as they are will prove to be important imo. I think this is a clue that nothing will stay as it is once the show is done--not only will the Wall fall, but the monarchy and the whole system will probably be toppled as well. Oldtown seems to represent the old status quo same as King's Landing and the Night's Watch, so they're probably screwed. They're just more intellectual about it. Euron will probably fuck the Oldtown up in the books, but what about in the show? Does the show have time for that? Only if show!Euron is interested in Oldtown for a specific reason.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Jul 23, 2017 9:04:52 GMT -5
Doing another 7x01 Re-watch today as part of my big 'prep' for episode 2 tonight! One thing that triggered a point I had forgotten to mention in all of the argument over whether or not Sansa was completely out of line in speaking out to Jon in front of the men ... Back in 6x09, Sansa DID NOT speak out to Jon at his war council in the tent (very reminiscent of Robb's similar tent war council way back when and he and Catelyn talking) when they were planning the battle against Ramsay Bolton and taking back Winterfell. She hung back and remained quiet and only after Tormund and Davos left did she come forward to ask Jon if it had even occurred to him to ask her for her advice about Ramsay after meeting him only one time. She admits she's no war general and doesn't know anything about battles but she DOES know Ramsay Bolton and she knows how he thinks and the games he likes to play. Here's that scene from 6x09 for comparison to the argument Jon and Sansa have in 7x01: She flat out told Jon NOT to do whatever Ramsay wants him to do ... and Jon falls for it anyways. Sansa warned him! She even told him there was no way they'd get Rickon back! In remembering this failure on Jon's part, I give points to Sansa being the more political savvy of the two of them and so in comparing it to the argument they had in 7x01, the one they had in 6x09 was actually worse IMO. Sansa waited patiently and spoke to him in private. She pointed out what was going to happen (nailed it) with Ramsay and Rickon, and still Jon did not heed her advice! He's not heeding her advice in 7x01 either. I do understand both sides of their argument and I think it was very necessary and very good for them to continue the argument into Season 7 ... up to a point. Somewhere in there Sansa has to get something else to go on and I suspect that's going to come from Littlefinger. Brienne's bluntly put question asking why he's still there was a good one... why ARE they still there? I said this in my summary but feeding and sheltering thousands of Vale army men in tents isn't going to be practical. Yes they're needed for the coming battle against the Night King but how long are they expected to live in tents outside Winterfell? Stannis and his army were freezing/starving out there! The Vale army can't be any more well prepared ... Just some final thoughts on 7x01. I'm ready for 7x02!!!
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Post by katjushka on Jul 23, 2017 9:38:10 GMT -5
She flat out told Jon NOT to do whatever Ramsay wants him to do ... and Jon falls for it anyways. Sansa warned him! She even told him there was no way they'd get Rickon back! This is all true and they were never going to get Rickon back but I said it then and I'll repeat it now that Jon is such a Ned, he was always going to run for Rickon. No matter how hopeless, no matter how stupid and dangerous. He would always try and he would not let Rickon die thinking no one cared enough to at least try to save him. But then I had no problem really with Sansa speaking her mind last week so.. I just wanted to point out that no matter what advice Sansa gave him and no matter how right she was it wouldn't change the fact that Jon will always risk himself for others.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Jul 23, 2017 10:05:53 GMT -5
She flat out told Jon NOT to do whatever Ramsay wants him to do ... and Jon falls for it anyways. Sansa warned him! She even told him there was no way they'd get Rickon back! This is all true and they were never going to get Rickon back but I said it then and I'll repeat it now that Jon is such a Ned, he was always going to run for Rickon. No matter how hopeless, no matter how stupid and dangerous. He would always try and he would not let Rickon die thinking no one cared enough to at least try to save him. But then I had no problem really with Sansa speaking her mind last week so.. I just wanted to point out that no matter what advice Sansa gave him and no matter how right she was it wouldn't change the fact that Jon will always risk himself for others. It's true and we all knew it the minute Jon got off his horse and started walking out onto the battlefield alone. Tormund knew it too ... "Don't" was all he said, more to himself knowing Jon was going to go ... Jon is compelled even in the face of sure death (again) to do what's right. Rickon knew, in his dying breath, that his brother tried to save him and that's what matters. But the point still stands that Jon does need to listen to Sansa a little bit. He asked her that in 7x01; "And how should I be smarter? By listening to you?" to which she replied "Would that be so terrible?" Times are changing and Jon's got to listen to others if he hopes to band them all together. He's going to need every bit of strength to get through whatever bigger argument he has with the men in 7x02 when he starts talking about allying with Daenerys and getting dragonglass. Sansa's words will again be important. She's going to mistrust Daenerys as well (She doesn't trust Queens at all) - and both sides of this argument have a point ... Dany is the Mad King's daughter and none of them know her... for all they know she's as dangerous as Aerys but with three dragons. I look forward to hearing what Sansa has to say and argue with Jon again on this one.
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Post by moiaf on Jul 23, 2017 13:32:21 GMT -5
Awesome find. I was hoping that drawing would have something to do with the seasons, too But this is still cool. I always loved the theory that the maesters are stalling progress in some way. Maybe the show will confirm it (or not.) I think it might have to do with the seasons too but we just don't have all the information. Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly but I thought GRRM had confirmed that we will eventually find out why the season are messed up. So, perhaps it's some type of astronomical issue as some have theorized. Awesome find. I was hoping that drawing would have something to do with the seasons, too But this is still cool. I always loved the theory that the maesters are stalling progress in some way. Maybe the show will confirm it (or not.) That's one of my favorites too. As they 'doubt everything', they will deny the existence of the Walkers until they march through the front doors of the Citadel. Yes, and I think it has to do with consolidating power or something to that effect. Perhaps some of that information can come from Quyburn who even if he is a mad scientist does believe in the exploration of knowledge. Even if he uses it for evil.
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