alcasinoroyale
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Post by alcasinoroyale on Aug 16, 2017 23:00:21 GMT -5
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Post by TheArchmaester on Aug 16, 2017 23:36:38 GMT -5
Holy shit. Adored the episode. Probably the best of the season (though I love The Queen's Justice too). It could make my all-time top 5, I think. I felt like an Eskimo in medieval Siberia, stuck in this constant tentative state between life and death. The simplicity of this episode is what it makes great for me. Just the strangeness of these few living specks thrown in the Icelandic void. The dialogue took advantage of this and helped build the mood, but it didn't have to try very hard. The visuals got the point across: life didn't belong there, but somehow it was there anyway. That was miracle enough. I love how Thoros gets to live a bit longer after the polar bear fight, how Jorah tries to keep his spirits up and Thoros just laughs it off and keeps on walking. How The Hound honors his memory by immediately trying to gulp down his wine (Jon is not amused). What a fabulous impossible-to-decipher creation by Paul Kaye, from season 3 to now.
The dragon's death felt titanic and like something taken from some saga. Dany's epiphany fully and believably realized.
I have to eat my words on the Winterfell stuff. Kudos to konradsmith for expressing it all so eloquently earlier today. The Arya-Sansa scenes are hard to watch but they do indeed feel real this episode. There's a wealth of bottled-up resentment coming to the surface here. I do think Arya is being crueler than Sansa but Arya always had the Stark self-righteousness and this is just a twisted version of it. I think she is also traumatized by all those times The Waif made her feel like a fool (season 5), buying into her lies and whatnot. And if anyone is going to be the fool now, Arya will make sure it's Sansa, not her.
The added horror to the Winterfell stuff is that the sisters are playing at death while a real life vs. death scenario is happening not very far from them. Their little "game of faces" suddenly takes on sinister connotations: a sick joke. Same for the irony of Tyrion and Dany discussing Dany's potential death and succession.
This is probably the most simple of the great classic GOT episodes and that's how it needed to be in order to work. Just the urgency of the human element face to face with everything else, the "great other" indeed.
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konradsmith
Investigative Reporter
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Post by konradsmith on Aug 17, 2017 0:07:54 GMT -5
Holy shit. Adored the episode. Probably the best of the season (though I love The Queen's Justice too). It could make my all-time top 5, I think. I felt like an Eskimo in medieval Siberia, stuck in this constant tentative state between life and death. The simplicity of this episode is what it makes great for me. Just the strangeness of these few living specks thrown in the Icelandic void. The dialogue took advantage of this and helped build the mood, but it didn't have to try very hard. The visuals got the point across: life didn't belong there, but somehow it was there anyway. That was miracle enough. I love how Thoros gets to live a bit longer after the polar bear fight, how Jorah tries to keep his spirits up and Thoros just laughs it off and keeps on walking. How The Hound honors his memory by immediately trying to gulp down his wine (Jon is not amused). What a fabulous impossible-to-decipher creation by Paul Kaye, from season 3 to now.
The dragon's death felt titanic and like something taken from some saga. Dany's epiphany fully and believably realized.
I have to eat my words on the Winterfell stuff. Kudos to konradsmith for expressing it all so eloquently earlier today. The Arya-Sansa scenes are hard to watch but they do indeed feel real this episode. There's a wealth of bottled-up resentment coming to the surface here. I do think Arya is being crueler than Sansa but Arya always had the Stark self-righteousness and this is just a twisted version of it. I think she is also traumatized by all those times The Waif made her feel like a fool (season 5), buying into her lies and whatnot. And if anyone is going to be the fool now, Arya will make sure it's Sansa, not her.
The added horror to the Winterfell stuff is that the sisters are playing at death while a real life vs. death scenario is happening not very far from them. Their little "game of faces" suddenly takes on sinister connotations: a sick joke. Same for the irony of Tyrion and Dany discussing Dany's potential death and succession.
This is probably the most simple of the great classic GOT episodes and that's how it needed to be in order to work. Just the urgency of the human element face to face with everything else, the "great other" indeed.It's great to have Alan Taylor back doing the show. In s2 they gave him, except for the finale, weaker material to work with but his directing was always excellent. And of course his s1 work, where he was the first director to really convey the scale of the show's world and to add a cinematic sense to it. I really hope he's back for s8.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Aug 17, 2017 0:26:13 GMT -5
Holy shit. Adored the episode. Probably the best of the season (though I love The Queen's Justice too). It could make my all-time top 5, I think. I felt like an Eskimo in medieval Siberia, stuck in this constant tentative state between life and death. The simplicity of this episode is what it makes great for me. Just the strangeness of these few living specks thrown in the Icelandic void. The dialogue took advantage of this and helped build the mood, but it didn't have to try very hard. The visuals got the point across: life didn't belong there, but somehow it was there anyway. That was miracle enough. I love how Thoros gets to live a bit longer after the polar bear fight, how Jorah tries to keep his spirits up and Thoros just laughs it off and keeps on walking. How The Hound honors his memory by immediately trying to gulp down his wine (Jon is not amused). What a fabulous impossible-to-decipher creation by Paul Kaye, from season 3 to now.
The dragon's death felt titanic and like something taken from some saga. Dany's epiphany fully and believably realized.
I have to eat my words on the Winterfell stuff. Kudos to konradsmith for expressing it all so eloquently earlier today. The Arya-Sansa scenes are hard to watch but they do indeed feel real this episode. There's a wealth of bottled-up resentment coming to the surface here. I do think Arya is being crueler than Sansa but Arya always had the Stark self-righteousness and this is just a twisted version of it. I think she is also traumatized by all those times The Waif made her feel like a fool (season 5), buying into her lies and whatnot. And if anyone is going to be the fool now, Arya will make sure it's Sansa, not her.
The added horror to the Winterfell stuff is that the sisters are playing at death while a real life vs. death scenario is happening not very far from them. Their little "game of faces" suddenly takes on sinister connotations: a sick joke. Same for the irony of Tyrion and Dany discussing Dany's potential death and succession.
This is probably the most simple of the great classic GOT episodes and that's how it needed to be in order to work. Just the urgency of the human element face to face with everything else, the "great other" indeed.It's great to have Alan Taylor back doing the show. In s2 they gave him, except for the finale, weaker material to work with but his directing was always excellent. And of course his s1 work, where he was the first director to really convey the scale of the show's world and to add a cinematic sense to it. I really hope he's back for s8. He directed Fire and Blood, right? Yeah, that was beautiful stuff. I hope he comes back for one or two more. Podeswa, Taylor and Sapochnik would make for a fine s8 team.
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Post by archanabrownwalker on Aug 17, 2017 0:28:27 GMT -5
One question though. Where did the WW get such a large chain beyond the Wall that could pull a huge dead dragon out of water? Do they always carry it around, hoping that a dragon will show up eventually? WW were not even expecting a dragon attack. They were only hunting the handful of humans. Suspension of disbelief is the order of the day it seems
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Post by TheArchmaester on Aug 17, 2017 0:33:09 GMT -5
WW were not even expecting a dragon attack. Weren't they? I remain convinced that they were. And I do not trust those pesky fire visions
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alcasinoroyale
King of Winter
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Post by alcasinoroyale on Aug 17, 2017 0:38:33 GMT -5
WW were not even expecting a dragon attack. Weren't they? I remain convinced that they were. And I do not trust those pesky fire visions Yeah, I would be surprised if the NK didn't know that Dany had dragons, consider the number of abilities he has.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Aug 17, 2017 0:43:06 GMT -5
Weren't they? I remain convinced that they were. And I do not trust those pesky fire visions Yeah, I would be surprised if the NK didn't know that Dany had dragons, consider the number of abilities he has. I think he needed a dragon's magic to break the spell of the Wall. Curious timing in that he attacks the Wall immediately after getting his dragon. And does it successfully. Maybe not, but this is my theory and I'm sticking with it
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sercreighton
Silverwing
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 17, 2017 1:51:16 GMT -5
One question though. Where did the WW get such a large chain beyond the Wall that could pull a huge dead dragon out of water? Do they always carry it around, hoping that a dragon will show up eventually? WW were not even expecting a dragon attack. They were only hunting the handful of humans. Suspension of disbelief is the order of the day it seems Who says the WW were not expecting the dragons? The Night King is clearly a seer and has demonstrated this multiple times. The entire thing was a trap. Jon was the bait to lure out Dany and the Dragons. They were pushed to a place with only one entrance/exit. The Wights encircled them instead of trying to just catch them. And there they say and waited. You think the Night King can't freeze water? He just waited. And in the shot of waiting you see three of those big spears that he uses to take down dragons. Why do think he had those? Sure wasn't to throw at Jon and Company. It's a snipers trap. He's after Dany, he had a queen once. Remember the fist the horse pinwheel? Same type of pinwheel we saw when the Dothraki found her. That thing loved once, it's her he wants, that's why he is back. I personally liked the chains great symbolism. Great juxtaposition, the child of the breaker of chains in chains. Hate it's heart that is what the night King does. He enslaves, the Wights are Thralls. He is kind of like Littlefinger, He wants the world, but more than anything, he wants his Queen.
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 17, 2017 2:41:51 GMT -5
So I saw the whole thing and I think the Arya Sansa stuff is being. Blown up. I agree. I just watched it. I should not have jumped to conclusions before I saw it. I'm woman enough to say that when I've been over the top. I wish some people here would not insult/name-call Arya, however. We're better than that here. As for the episode ... I'm in shock. That was one of the most emotionally devastating of any episode. Even knowing the outcome of the battle, I could hardly breathe through that last 10 minutes of it. I cannot believe the amount of detail and realism they have put into the show's effects and choreography. It feels more real than many AAA movies I've seen in the past few years and on top of the emotional attachment we have to these characters over the years, it makes it almost too much to take. I do get why they are doing this with Arya even if I don't like it. Arya's testing Sansa. It's painful for me to watch though. The beautiful yet sad moment between Daenerys and Jon was so lovely and heartbreaking. Losing Viserion hurt a lot more than I thought it would and I cried. I'm not surprised Daenerys didn't show that much emotion at first, she was in shock and the emergency of the situation took over. Jon was the same way when Rickon died right in front of him too. Her grieving came later, especially when she let down her guard with Jon. I wish they hadn't put the Winterfell last scene in there where they did, it felt out of place considering the dire circumstances of everything else happening at the same time and made it harder to watch and try to understand when my heart was hammering and wanting to get back to see how the rest played out at Eastwatch. It's an amazing episode. I'm glad I decided to go ahead and watch it early because I needed to clear my head on the Arya/Sansa thing. The fandom is going to be very divided about it but I am accepting it and understanding it's still playing out and the final act of that storyline is yet to come. Yeah not the first time Arya and Sansa fans have had a go. They often fight like family. Something tells me they will be happy with episode 7. I thought for the episode the structure was on point, I got the juxtaposition, and the tone. It was a very clean episode and I loved how the quote contrasted the explosive action. I do think Dany should of left and been at the wall by the time Gendry got back. We know she was concerned. they are messing with the teleporting to much. Still a great scene with her arrival and the boat scene? You know she was sad, and sweet, and charming, and determined, and endearing and vulnerable all in that one little scene and Kit was just terrific and he was so damn sweet and good, and kind and when she said "I hope I deserve it" the whole season for her just came full circle. There was so much subtext in the boat scene. Her scene with Tyrion comes full circle and you see there is a lot of pain their for her, and Jon's scars and how he isn't hiding them and she doesn't need to ask. There is no judgment or even angst, there is trust and unity and understanding and how that is contrasting Arya and Sansa's fear and hate. The 13 Jon and his men, they start out divided but come together and come to understand each other. Weather it was Jon and Jorah, Gendry and the Brotherhood, the hound and everyone. Thoros saves the hound, the Hound saves Tormund, Jorah helps Jon. They all come to Understand eachother. Dany the conqueror becomes Dany the defender, Jon's pride becomes his humility. Insecurity changes to honesty. Fear becomes courage I thought the part where she tells him about Dany would be painful for her, but she was cute and charming in that moment instead. I thought Beric was great he was like a Becon. Tormund was doing his thing, but Beric was warm and how simply he handled Jon. With essentially look you're back, you're hear for a reason, that's it, the rest will get here when it does. Death always wins but you still fight. Which is basiclly what do we say to the God of death? Not today. Oh and I love the imagery of Viserion in chains, because that's what the Night King does, he enslaves, those are his Thralls. A child of the Breaker of chains in chains. It's sad and impactful. You watched them be born, and you got to see the, grow into fearsome, but majestic creatures. To see one of the last of its kind leave the world and become a slave. There is little not to like with this episode. I like how everything keyed off differences and interpersonal relationships, and how trust once again plays its part and how while we are different things can bring people together.
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nikma
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Post by nikma on Aug 17, 2017 2:57:17 GMT -5
This episode eas art I agree.
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Post by atimeforwolves on Aug 17, 2017 4:50:32 GMT -5
Also, I don't know if this has been mentioned but there was a fairly significant line in there from Tormund while talking to Jon about how many thousands of people had to die for Mance Rayder's pride. I was shocked by that since Tormund was always one of the biggest "we do not kneel" supporters. I think this is probably what changed Jon's mind and helped him make the decision he already wanted to make about Daenerys. Oh, yes, I also noticed this and mentioned few pages before, without response iirc. This moment was so big and at the same time it was only one line among lot of conversations. But it set up Jon's kneeling perfectly. He knew he had to, there's plenty of good reasons, but he need this kind of justification, especially when it comes from FF, even more as it was in direct relation to Mance's decision and consequences. Mance was important to Jon, one of few who shapes his character so strongly. And he got good reasons to refuse kneeling, fear that his people won't agree for that was much more important that his pride. But pride also be an issue. And Tormund's word gave Jon hope that his people may also understand after some time, that it was necessary and for their good, as opposite would only lead to death many of them. Jon knows it, but still needs some support for this decision.
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Lordimp
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Post by Lordimp on Aug 17, 2017 5:11:56 GMT -5
Did someone else got the fealing that Night king knew exactly how to deal with dragons? I think he has encountered dragons before.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 5:28:56 GMT -5
If killing the NK ends it all, I think that makes it even more probable that he will be assassinated in the end instead of defeated in open battle. Arya assassinating the NK. I hope it happens.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 5:57:18 GMT -5
Considering all the basic (and lame) titles so far, I wouldn't be shocked if 707 was just called The Dragonpit.
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