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Post by moiaf on Jun 29, 2018 10:17:46 GMT -5
I've been meaning to share these. If there are any reylo shippers out there, these are some great theory videos and I think there's a lot of truth here.
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Post by atargbyanothername on Jun 29, 2018 18:16:02 GMT -5
Maybe I missed something but why would it matter what Hamill think anyway? Is his opinion somehow sacrosanct? It's cool with the actors agree with you on something but it doesn't change anything. Like you or me they are just giving their opinion. I would be more concerned if we were hearing dissent from the Lucasfilm Story Group. Yep don’t get me wrong, I think Hamill is great and respect him a lot, but his opinion on a character is just that, an opinion. He might think one thing of a character but others will disagree, he is not unquestionable in his opinion just because he portrays the character on screen. the statement in question “Jedi don’t give up” is incredibly simplistic anyway. Completely ignores the time between RotJ and the current films and how Luke could have (and apparently did) change during that time. People change, news at 10? Also also, Luke ‘gave up’ midway through his training to race off and rescue Han and Leia. Yoda ‘gave up’ for 20 odd years or however long while the Emperor oppressed million while he went senile on Dagobah. Obi-Wan ‘gave up’ and lived in a cave. And so Luke ‘giving up’ and running off to live as a hermit is *gasp* exactly what his predecessors did when they failed? I mean tickle me red and call me Elmo because I must be a muppet for thinking Jedi give up, right?!
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ladystoneboobs
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Jun 30, 2018 7:23:36 GMT -5
i don't really wanna drag this stupid argument out but.... saucei was initially disappointed to have luke in the obi-wan/yoda role because those liars kinda sucked but he was never an optimist in the ot either.
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Post by nikma on Jun 30, 2018 15:26:37 GMT -5
What do you think are similarities and differences between GoT and Star Wars fandoms?
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Post by moiaf on Jun 30, 2018 15:45:28 GMT -5
What do you think are similarities and differences between GoT and Star Wars fandoms? I’m sad to say that I find the Star Wars fandom incredibly toxic much more so than GoT. While there a lot of good and positive people there’s also a vocal group of people who are constantly complaining. It’s like the Rant and Rave thread at the other forum but on crack.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 17:09:51 GMT -5
As bad as the rant and ravers are, the craziest Star Wars fans are much worse. Stuff like what happened to Kelly Tran is on a whole other level of psychotic behavior.
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Post by nikma on Jun 30, 2018 17:26:17 GMT -5
That was my impression as well, but I wanted to see what others think.
I feel that D&D, Cogman, GRRM and the rest never got that much hate like Rian, Kennedy, Lucas and the rest.
Every fandom is toxic,in some capacity, but I feel like SW is just too much.
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Post by nikma on Jun 30, 2018 17:28:17 GMT -5
As bad as the rant and ravers are, the craziest Star Wars fans are much worse. Stuff like what happened to Kelly Tran is on a whole other level of psychotic behavior. Yeah. Sand Snakes were hated in GoT fandom, but I never heard that the actresses were harassed.
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Jul 1, 2018 2:02:02 GMT -5
i think it's a matter of scale and longevity. star wars is a cultural behemoth far outstripping any tv show, including game of thrones, and it's been going strong for 40 years. that's a lot of fans and a lot of chance for crazy. and unfortunately, until recently with the all-white main cast and the male heroes and the genre, it's been perceived as a white male nerdy thing with little pushback, letting them think it belonged to them in a way it never did.
not like the toxicity is a recent phenomenon tho either. just ask jake lloyd.
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Post by atargbyanothername on Jul 1, 2018 4:46:15 GMT -5
i think it's a matter of scale and longevity. star wars is a cultural behemoth far outstripping any tv show, including game of thrones, and it's been going strong for 40 years. that's a lot of fans and a lot of chance for crazy. and unfortunately, until recently with the all-white main cast and the male heroes and the genre, it's been perceived as a white male nerdy thing with little pushback, letting them think it belonged to them in a way it never did. not like the toxicity is a recent phenomenon tho either. just ask jake lloyd. I agree with this. Let game of thrones rest for a decade or two then reboot it...even then I’m not sure itnwould be so toxic because of the different periods in which both franchises began. But SW fandom is very much an unfortunate product of white male nerd rage RUINING MY CHILDHOOD!
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Jul 2, 2018 3:11:41 GMT -5
i think it's a matter of scale and longevity. star wars is a cultural behemoth far outstripping any tv show, including game of thrones, and it's been going strong for 40 years. that's a lot of fans and a lot of chance for crazy. and unfortunately, until recently with the all-white main cast and the male heroes and the genre, it's been perceived as a white male nerdy thing with little pushback, letting them think it belonged to them in a way it never did. not like the toxicity is a recent phenomenon tho either. just ask jake lloyd. I agree with this. Let game of thrones rest for a decade or two then reboot it...even then I’m not sure itnwould be so toxic because of the different periods in which both franchises began. But SW fandom is very much an unfortunate product of white male nerd rage RUINING MY CHILDHOOD! i mean, i'm sure there have been crazies harassing the thrones cast on social media, there just wouldn't be enough scale to scare the actors away. idt got would ever have that, in part because it's very much not a family-friendly series and that limits the mainstream audience. it's not just white male nerd rage either, at least when it comes to tlj. the anti-reylo side on tumblr can be as bad as the rant and ravers. they cloak their hate in sjw terms just like some of the book purists, but man they hate rian johnson and some of their hate for finn/rose and rose as a character is actually racist. they have no high ground over the guys who drove kmt off twitter and most of them only got into star wars with the new trilogy and think they know better than anyone arguing it's always had a redemption them. but idk how much they really matter outside of the strange world of tumblr.
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Post by dragonsnow on Jul 3, 2018 12:10:54 GMT -5
Come on now. If a movie makes money Disney likes it. They don't really care if it is a good movie or not. They rather make a profitable bad movie than lose money on a good movie. So Jurassic World is exactly what Disney would want. Lots of special effects and it makes money. are you friends with colin trevorrow? LoL! Trevorrow was fired over the shitty performance of The Book of Henry and the awful script he came up. I say good riddance because even if Jurassic World has made money it's still an awful film.
Here's Treveorrow's interpretation of Star Wars:
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Post by dragonsnow on Jul 3, 2018 12:33:35 GMT -5
It's cool with the actors agree with you on something but it doesn't change anything. Like you or me they are just giving their opinion. I would be more concerned if we were hearing dissent from the Lucasfilm Story Group. Yep don’t get me wrong, I think Hamill is great and respect him a lot, but his opinion on a character is just that, an opinion. He might think one thing of a character but others will disagree, he is not unquestionable in his opinion just because he portrays the character on screen. the statement in question “Jedi don’t give up” is incredibly simplistic anyway. Completely ignores the time between RotJ and the current films and how Luke could have (and apparently did) change during that time. People change, news at 10? Also also, Luke ‘gave up’ midway through his training to race off and rescue Han and Leia. Yoda ‘gave up’ for 20 odd years or however long while the Emperor oppressed million while he went senile on Dagobah. Obi-Wan ‘gave up’ and lived in a cave. And so Luke ‘giving up’ and running off to live as a hermit is *gasp* exactly what his predecessors did when they failed? I mean tickle me red and call me Elmo because I must be a muppet for thinking Jedi give up, right?! You are really comparing apples and oranges here. Yoda and Luke went into hiding because they had to. The emperor destroyed the Jedi and sent assassins including Vader to seek out and kill any who survived. Vader was obsessed with finding Obi Wan. Hiding was strategic. They didn't give up they were waiting. Obi Wan did train Luke. He wanted to train Luke. So did Yoda. Luke rejected Rey. When Ben Solo joined to Dark Side the good guys were still in control of the galaxy. The First Order was a problem but they didn't have free reign over the galaxy like the Empire did. Luke ran away and let the bad guys get stronger when he could have stopped them. Luke chose to hide when he didn't have to. Yoda and Obi Wan hid in order to survive and fight another day. Apples and Oranges. The treatment the actors are getting from the hard core fan is horrible. I feel bad for the Rose actress. Not her fault at all. And honestly maybe hardcore fans don't deserve the movie they want given some of there behavior. The Last Jedi still sucked though. A lot things went wrong with that movie that I not even bringing up. Like Rey being more powerful than Kylo with absolutely no training. Lazy lazy writing. Building up Snoke only to get puked by Kylo. But destroying the legend of Luke the way they did really damaged the brand. Probably forever. They could have handled it so much better.
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Post by dragonsnow on Jul 3, 2018 12:53:53 GMT -5
i don't really wanna drag this stupid argument out but.... saucei was initially disappointed to have luke in the obi-wan/yoda role because those liars kinda sucked but he was never an optimist in the ot either. I has been hard for Mark to speak honestly while being reminded by Disney that he has to say nice things according to his contract. The lengths he has gone to is pretty much unheard of as far as actors criticizing his own film. However he is a nice guy. Mark isn't nasty like the fans are so he was able to occasionally pat Johnson on the back given all the heat he has gotten. “In Hollywood, remember kids, it’s not important if it’s high quality. It only matters if it makes money.” He admitted to feeling dismayed at Disney’s firing of Colin Trevorrow, reminiscing that him and the director were very much on the same page when it came to Luke’s story arc. And of course there’s his now-famous Vanity Fair quote regarding his conversation with Rian Johnson: Disney can't fire Mark but that can fire Trevorrow. “I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you’ve made for this character. Now, having said that, I have gotten it off my chest, and my job now is to take what you’ve created and do my best to realize your vision.” www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2017/12/28/mark-hamill-shouldnt-have-to-apologise-for-being-honest/#7807f58a3af8It is clear as day how he felt. You can say it doesn't matter. Actors opinions don't matter. But in this case it does. Mark is Luke. Nobody knows him from anything else. It is his livelihood. And he hadn't reprised the role in 30 years. They only had one shot to get this right. Disney wishes they listened to him. They could have struck a balance with granting the old characters a graceful exit while ushering in the new. But they threw the old ones in the garbage.
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Post by Basil on Jul 3, 2018 16:43:02 GMT -5
Mark Hamill is not Luke, though. He's the actor who played him, nothing more. Mark Hamill hasn't spent the last 30 plus years of his life thinking about Luke or Star Wars. That's what the fans have been up to, the actors have moved on with their lives and gone to other projects. And guess what, people do know Mark Hamill from other things, his Joker is almost as legendary as Luke. Also, how exactly do you define a graceful exit? Having a "crazy force battle" with Snoke? That's like the exact opposite of graceful. Luke went out at peace ... content. He became one with the Force while watching the binary sunset, which not only has great symbolic significance, but also carries such incredible emotional weight to all those who grew up with these movies. I cannot imagine a more graceful, beautiful ending for this character.
Let's be real for a second. I love Star Wars just as much as the next guy, but let's not pretend that the charaters in the original trilogy, as great and iconic as they are, were ever that deep or well written. Like it or not, The Last Jedi gave Luke a degree of depth and complexity that simply wasn't there before (at least not in the movies). You are free to hate the direction they decided to take the character, of course, but saying that the movie ruined Luke as a character or whatever is so fucking ridiculous.
And the fact that butthurt fanboys on the internet like to bitch about the movie so much, and tend to drown out all other voices, doesn't make The Last Jedi objectively bad. Personally, I don't know anyone in real life who had a strong dislike for the movie, virtually all people I've discussed the movie with thought it was good to great. And I will never forget, when I first saw it in the cinema, next to me was a dad with his little kid, and at the end of the movie when Luke faded away, the dad started crying. I mean ... so did I, but I'm an emotional mess, so it doesn't say much. It was a really poignant thing though, and it speaks for the true quality of The Last Jedi, if only you're open to a slightly different take on Star Wars.
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