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Post by belle on Apr 18, 2017 13:46:11 GMT -5
Your comment reminds me of why I had a couple of issues with her "feels good" monologue to unella. It simplified her character imo and painted her as some sort of hedonist. When she really isn't imo. Both the books and show have shown that cersei's motivations are much more than just hedonism. It's obvious that scene was just to secure Lena an Emmy nom and I did enjoy it. But I think it could have been better written That scene was tricky. I think Lena just about sold it with her performance but the overall Gothic torture porn feel was a tad much. Hedonism is not really much of a thing for show Cersei. yeah the only way i can make sense of that scene with the rest of cersei's character is by not taking it at completely face value. because even if you just look at some minutes later. it didn't seem like cersei was "feeling good" when looking at tommen's body or when she was taking the throne. and neither does the sole motivation of "feeing good" fit with the season 7 leaks that we have of her.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Apr 18, 2017 13:51:26 GMT -5
That scene was tricky. I think Lena just about sold it with her performance but the overall Gothic torture porn feel was a tad much. Hedonism is not really much of a thing for show Cersei. yeah the only way i can make sense of that scene with the rest of cersei's character is by not taking it at completely face value. because even if you just look at some minutes later. it didn't seem like cersei was "feeling good" when looking at tommen's body or when she was taking the throne. and neither does the sole motivation of "feeing good" fit with the season 7 leaks that we have of her. She said all the right things to mess with Unella's mind before the Mountain came in. I guess this was the closest Unella got to a Sex Ed. class. Cersei definitely felt good when she watched the Sept blow up but in her last 2 scenes (Tommen's body and coronation) there's something very very different going on.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Apr 18, 2017 13:56:31 GMT -5
I loved the It Felt Good monologue. It showed that she is cruel and mean and doesn't give a fuck. She would pinch Tyrions dick and wish for his death when he was an infant. She had her guards rip a servants eye out when she was nine. She threatened to have Maggy's eyes stabbed out when she was what, 14? She's been a rotten person since birth. This isn't a woman who is the victim of circumstance. This is a woman who knows exactly what she is doing and does it because she wants to and because she can. She justifies it and makes excuses and says she does it for her family, but at the end of the day, she knows and we know that she enjoys it. I love that there's so many legit ways to read her character (both book and show). Great discussion, y'all!
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Post by TheMadQueen on Apr 18, 2017 13:57:06 GMT -5
I think that was just her feeling herself and gloating over Septa Unella.
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Post by belle on Apr 18, 2017 14:01:18 GMT -5
yeah the only way i can make sense of that scene with the rest of cersei's character is by not taking it at completely face value. because even if you just look at some minutes later. it didn't seem like cersei was "feeling good" when looking at tommen's body or when she was taking the throne. and neither does the sole motivation of "feeing good" fit with the season 7 leaks that we have of her. She said all the right things to mess with Unella's mind before the Mountain came in. I guess this was the closest Unella got to a Sex Ed. class. Cersei definitely felt good when she watched the Sept blow up but in her last 2 scenes (Tommen's body and coronation) there's something very very different going on. i think D&D just wanted to give the audience as much catharsis as possible from the whole high sparrow storyline. i remember a lot of people saying that they enjoyed that scene because it felt refreshing to see someone just admit that know they're fucked up and the whole "even confessing feels good under the right circumstances". i agree that cersei felt good when burning the sept but it really irked me when she said she killed robert because it felt good. lol if it was only just about feeling good, she would have killed robert a lot earlier than that. i remember people were comparing Cersei to Michael Corleone and there was definitely a lot of inspiration from that imo so i guess the unella scene was the equivalent to this.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Apr 18, 2017 14:09:35 GMT -5
i think D&D just wanted to give the audience as much catharsis as possible from the whole high sparrow storyline. Well, ending the whole Sparrow storyline with a form of "sexual release" is kinda brilliant and appropriate That's why I found Cersei's live reaction to the explosion to be so, so good. (100% agreed on Robert btw).
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Post by belle on Apr 18, 2017 14:16:34 GMT -5
i think D&D just wanted to give the audience as much catharsis as possible from the whole high sparrow storyline. Well, ending the whole Sparrow storyline with a form of "sexual release" is kinda brilliant and appropriate That's why I found Cersei's live reaction to the explosion to be so, so good. (100% agreed on Robert btw). lol i blocked out that scene after cersei finished her speech tbh. i dont want to know or think about any kind of "sexual release" that happened there
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Post by TheArchmaester on Apr 18, 2017 14:20:08 GMT -5
Well, ending the whole Sparrow storyline with a form of "sexual release" is kinda brilliant and appropriate That's why I found Cersei's live reaction to the explosion to be so, so good. (100% agreed on Robert btw). lol i blocked out that scene after cersei finished her speech tbh. i dont want to know or think about any kind of "sexual release" that happened there The release was all Cersei's. As for the other two.... yeah, no thanks
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Apr 18, 2017 18:35:11 GMT -5
Wow, I missed a great discussion on madness. My $0.02 worth.
As someone up-thread mentioned, there is a thin line between madness or ruthlessness. I think the problem is using the word madness, as it doesn't encircle many personality disorders, which is what Cersei seems to exhibit. Narcissism with a strong side of paranoia would be where I'd start, along with a pathological need to amass power for self-preservation.
There is a difference in Cersei watching the Sept blow and then mounting the steps to the Iron Throne. Alone, watching the fruit of her machinations, she could drop the facade and show us her true nature, the glee over other's misfortunes. On her way to the coronation, she's wearing again her mask of power and coldness. Notice there is not a sound other than Qyburn's.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 20:10:28 GMT -5
Tywin also killed TONS of innocent people. But I never saw people call him crazy. lol I'm not saying that cersei is sane. Not at all. she could clearly use a therapist. But I just don't get why she's mad when she kills innocents but tywin isn't. why do we have to look for mental illness in her? just let her be an evil queen bitch lol I think Cersei gets off on it. Tywin didn't.
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Post by belle on Apr 18, 2017 21:15:12 GMT -5
Tywin also killed TONS of innocent people. But I never saw people call him crazy. lol I'm not saying that cersei is sane. Not at all. she could clearly use a therapist. But I just don't get why she's mad when she kills innocents but tywin isn't. why do we have to look for mental illness in her? just let her be an evil queen bitch lol I think Cersei gets off on it. Tywin didn't. i disagree. i think tywin was just as cruel and fucked up as cersei imo. he definitely got off on the way he abused tyrion and what he did to tysha.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 22:01:56 GMT -5
I think Cersei gets off on it. Tywin didn't. i disagree. i think tywin was just as cruel and fucked up as cersei imo. he definitely got off on the way he abused tyrion and what he did to tysha. Tywin did some truly despicable things, but he was all about saving face for House Lannister. Whereas Cersei does shit out of hatred or revenge. Tywin was more of a pragmatist.
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Post by belle on Apr 18, 2017 22:11:41 GMT -5
i disagree. i think tywin was just as cruel and fucked up as cersei imo. he definitely got off on the way he abused tyrion and what he did to tysha. Tywin did some truly despicable things, but he was all about saving face for House Lannister. Whereas Cersei does shit out of hatred or revenge. Tywin was more of a pragmatist. are we talking about book tywin or show tywin? because i can see why you say that about show tywin but the way that book tywin mistreated and abused his children, i would disagree that he only did it for family. a lot of his actions in regards to tyrion imo were definitely out of hatred and revenge. i don't think a pragmatist would go to the lengths of cruely that tywin did. especially with his use of the likes of the mountain as a weapon in war. when i think of pragmatist, i think of more of what book jon is becoming. not tywin.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 22:22:05 GMT -5
Tywin did some truly despicable things, but he was all about saving face for House Lannister. Whereas Cersei does shit out of hatred or revenge. Tywin was more of a pragmatist. are we talking about book tywin or show tywin? because i can see why you say that about show tywin but the way that book tywin mistreated and abused his children, i would disagree that he only did it for family. a lot of his actions in regards to tyrion imo were definitely out of hatred and revenge. i don't think a pragmatist would go to the lengths of cruely that tywin did. especially with his use of the likes of the mountain as a weapon in war. when i think of pragmatist, i think of more of what book jon is becoming. not tywin. Jon is far from a pragmatist. He's idealistic as can be. Tywin and Roose are better examples.
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Post by belle on Apr 18, 2017 22:28:23 GMT -5
are we talking about book tywin or show tywin? because i can see why you say that about show tywin but the way that book tywin mistreated and abused his children, i would disagree that he only did it for family. a lot of his actions in regards to tyrion imo were definitely out of hatred and revenge. i don't think a pragmatist would go to the lengths of cruely that tywin did. especially with his use of the likes of the mountain as a weapon in war. when i think of pragmatist, i think of more of what book jon is becoming. not tywin. Jon is far from a pragmatist. He's idealistic as can be. Tywin and Roose are better examples. guess we'll have to agree to disagree because i think book jon is slowly becoming more and more pragmatic.
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