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Post by jared on May 28, 2017 16:06:41 GMT -5
If Sansa ends up with anyone in the show - which is FAR from a sure thing after everything she's been through - it will be Tyrion. (She might have other options in the books, but I don't believe for a second that Harry is her happily-ever-after. Everything about that guy strikes me as bad news). There aren't many other viable options left, and the same is true for Tyrion - despite the theories spawned by their interactions in "The Winds of Winter", he clearly isn't ending up with Dany.
Jon and Dany are probably the last romance that the show will really have time to establish between two characters who have never met before, so any future couplings that last - as opposed to being an engine for comedy (Tormund and Brienne) or a temporary liaison (Yara and Ellaria) will need to be grounded in the characters' established history. So I don't see them introducing a new love interest for Sansa in the form of a character that she's either never met before (Gendry, who will be Arya's love interest if he's anyone's) or interacted with only briefly (Podrick*). I hadn't considered Theon, but like Jon, that might be a bit too close to a brother-sister relationship as well, even though they aren't related at all. And Theon, of course, has a mountain of his own issues to deal with.
*All I want for Pod is for him to get his damn knighthood by the end of the series. The kid's earned it.
At the very least, I expect that Tyrion and Sansa will reunite in Season 8 and share a scene in which they reflect on their marriage and make it clear that they bear each other no ill will. And if the show wants to entertain the possibility of a full reconciliation, there will likely be time for more**. Ever since someone on these boards suggested it, I've been pretty locked in on the idea that at least part of Tyrion and Sansa's stories in Season 8 will involve them going south to deal with Cersei. They likely won't be on the front lines against the White Walkers, and aside from Jaime, they're by far the two characters that have the longest history with her (Arya hates Cersei, but the times when they've actually shared the screen have been pretty sparse). If that's the case, Tyrion and Sansa could be spending a good amount of Season 8 together. Who knows where that could lead?
**If that's the direction the show decides to go, I wonder if Tyrion will ask Jon about Sansa when they meet this season. Nothing untoward, just a "How is she? Is she safe and happy now?" kind of thing.
Personally, however, I think the likelier course is that Sansa ends up with no one, or - assuming that she survives - the series leaves us with a tease that hints she might find happiness with someone ... one day, when she's healed sufficiently and decided that she's ready to open her heart and trust again.
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Post by King Tommen on May 28, 2017 16:24:49 GMT -5
In terms of an endgame, if Cersei is deposed and they're trying to scrape together the remnants of a Westerosi kingdom, Sansa and Tyrion being married as a merging of houses for the purpose of uniting a kingdom might be the way they go. This assumes Dany doesn't end up on the Iron Throne, and the more I think about it, the less likely I think that is (either she decides she doesn't actually want it or she sacrifices herself as part of the final battle with the WW). Jon sure as fuck doesn't want it so Sansa getting the title (with Tyrion ruling alongside her) seems like a satisfying ending for that story.
So while I don't think they'll be "in love" with each other, a marriage of convenience, much like Ned and Cat had seems like a far more likely way they take things in S8.
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nikma
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Post by nikma on May 28, 2017 17:01:06 GMT -5
I think Jon will be the King innthe end. He doesn't want that, but he didn't want to be LC or KITN either. There is a reason why they will make him a legitimate Targaryen.
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moiaf
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Post by moiaf on May 28, 2017 17:14:53 GMT -5
I fucking hate the reluctant hero trope with the wrath of a thousand volcanoes. Just needed to get that off my chest.
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TheMadQueen
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 28, 2017 17:33:57 GMT -5
I fucking hate the reluctant hero trope with the wrath of a thousand volcanoes. Just needed to get that off my chest. i think Jon is an eager hero, but a reluctant ruler. He's much more of a doer than a thinker IMO. He's happy to run towards danger and kick ass and kill monsters, but I think he's uncomfortable with tons of responsibility. He's a very humble guy, so I don't think he's really adjusted yet to people treating him like a lord, or later a King. I think he's like Jaime. He wants to be a soldier and a knight and do what he signed up to do, but doesn't want to deal with the struggles and responsibility of being a ruler.
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Post by moiaf on May 28, 2017 17:40:11 GMT -5
I fucking hate the reluctant hero trope with the wrath of a thousand volcanoes. Just needed to get that off my chest. i think Jon is an eager hero, but a reluctant ruler. He's much more of a doer than a thinker IMO. He's happy to run towards danger and kick ass and kill monsters, but I think he's uncomfortable with tons of responsibility. He's a very humble guy, so I don't think he's really adjusted yet to people treating him like a lord, or later a King. I think he's like Jaime. He wants to be a soldier and a knight and do what he signed up to do, but doesn't want to deal with the struggles and responsibility of being a ruler. I get that but it's a tired cliche. Some of our best leaders were people who understood that they could make a difference and embraced the opportunity to do so. Sure, they didn't care for the bureaucratic obstacles they continued to face but they willingly wanted to serve their people. They also understood that they could only accomplish this by pursuing positions of power and so they did.
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nikma
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Post by nikma on May 28, 2017 17:44:09 GMT -5
Everything is cliche at this point. Even to have characters like LF or Cersei as protagonists is cliche these days.
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belle
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Post by belle on May 28, 2017 17:49:46 GMT -5
Everything is cliche at this point. Even to have characters like LF or Cersei as protagonists is cliche these days. yep. there's nothing particularly left that's completely brand new and original in terms of writing. so i think the greater focus should be on more whether the writing is well fleshed out or not.
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on May 28, 2017 17:59:02 GMT -5
I fucking hate the reluctant hero trope with the wrath of a thousand volcanoes. Just needed to get that off my chest. Ha, Jon in the books is pretty reluctant to do anything, hell he had to be blackmailed into sex. Though Sam made him LC to protect him and his mission in the book to liberate the North didn't actually have him reluctant to be King on the show. In the books he has wanted to be the Lord of Winterfell and the King of Westeros. In my opinion that Zombie will never sit the Iron Throne. I said it before and I will say it again Jon is not the classic hero he is the classic Snow White princess. Chased out of his home by his step mom, in hidding, shit he needs falls into his lap, and he constantly needs to be saved. Not so much with show Jon but book Jon gets his bacon saved all the time. Dany tends to carve her own path. People simply put Jon on the throne because he is a guy and they argue tropes and Westeros norms. Slavers bay had a norm, till the single greatest agent of change arrived. We already know how Dany feels about about norms especially bad ones, it's the get the fuck over it approach. Only a Khal can lead a Khalasar, Slavery is the way, A Prince will wake the Dragons, Men come first. She is Nameria on Roids. Show Jon is doing a pretty good job, especially compared to book Jon. It's not like he would be a bad King, outside of his undead brought back by magic standing. His hidden parantage seems to revolve more around his relationship standing with Dany. Which even the leaks seem to point to. The treatment had the same basic play on it as well. There is also Jon's reluctance to share his undead status. Things like that never work out well in the books, characters usually get bit in the ass for that kind of thing. I also don't see Jon trying to enforce that idea with Dany. The whole I am a man I should be king thing goes against his nature.He wasn't like that with Sansa. And Dany isn't Sansa. Dany did all the work to bring her family name back from the dead. For Jon to benifit from that while doing nothing for his house name is very unmartin like. He has a hell of rep on the show right now, but that is as a Stark and he did a lot to bring back that house. He earned it. Dany earned her Targaryen name and standing.
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Lils
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Post by Lils on May 28, 2017 18:25:34 GMT -5
It's interesting to see how similar the arguments against Jon or Dany are. I like both of them at the same level. I honestly think that on their own, they make a lot of mistakes because they are lacking the traits that the other possesses. Jon can be indecisive whereas Dany can sometimes be impetuous. They're both fairly good leaders, even in spite of the mistakes they make. I think when they come together, they'll become a yin yang situation. His flaws are smoothed over by Dany's virtues and vice versa. I want them both on the throne.
I don't know. I think all of GRRM's characters are enjoyable, even when they can be cliche. They feel real and are fleshed out enough that people love them so much that they really feel their deaths.
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on May 28, 2017 20:27:30 GMT -5
It's interesting to see how similar the arguments against Jon or Dany are. I like both of them at the same level. I honestly think that on their own, they make a lot of mistakes because they are lacking the traits that the other possesses. Jon can be indecisive whereas Dany can sometimes be impetuous. They're both fairly good leaders, even in spite of the mistakes they make. I think when they come together, they'll become a yin yang situation. His flaws are smoothed over by Dany's virtues and vice versa. I want them both on the throne. I don't know. I think all of GRRM's characters are enjoyable, even when they can be cliche. They feel real and are fleshed out enough that people love them so much that they really feel their deaths. Mistakes don't bother, if they didn't make them they would not feel real. Like Jon at the Wall when he got the loan from the Iron Bank and had all these sort of grand ideas on spending it. All I was thinking was 16 year old with his first credit card, which to me is believable. Dany struggling with a slave culture in slavers bay, if she didn't struggle it would read as complete bullshit, the slavers are not going to roll over and think "gosh what a good speech she just gave slavery is totally wrong I see that now." Bran being a little rule breaker, kids break rules, Arya the rebel. Sansa going to Cersei. I kind of find it interesting that none of them are much like Ned, people often say they are. But Ned was pragmatic, and did not do well outside his own little bubble he had been living in. Jon is not that pragmatic, Bran is pure dreamer, Arya is a total rule breaker, Sansa was? Not sure what Sansa is but it was not Ned like. Funny how she is in the Vale as a teen like Ned was but LF is her mentor instead JA. Though she sort of has her own Robert. I think Jon has some Ned in him, I think he was more like Ned than Robb who I suspect was more like Brandon. Though Robb seemed to have his gift for Strategy.
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belle
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Post by belle on May 28, 2017 20:44:34 GMT -5
There's one thing that just came into my mind right now. Did Bryan Cogman essentially give away that Arya isn't going to kill Cersei in EW?
In EW, Cogman said that he and D&D had to cut certain character interactions out because there was simply no way that those characters could be in a room together without killing each other".
The only two characters that really fit this bill is Arya and Cersei IMO. Its a pretty easy guess too, since pretty much all the Good Guys team up this season. And Cersei meets with all her other antagonists in the Dragonpit scene and no one gets killed. It can't be Cersei/Sansa either because Cogman was referring to characters who've never properly conversed before. And Sansa/Cersei know each other well and had plenty of conversations.
So now I wonder if in the very first outlines of Season 7 if Arya was originally supposed to make a quick-stop at KL before going to Winterfell. But D&D and Cogman just could not think of a single way to have Arya/Cersei interact without Arya killing Cersei so they decided to scrap it and come up with a way in which its believable that Arya doesn't go to KL after massacring the Freys.
More importantly if Cogman was referring to Arya/Cersei then it also means that Cersei is one name that Arya won't be crossing off her list it seems.
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day dreamer
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Post by day dreamer on May 28, 2017 20:51:17 GMT -5
That's an interesting idea, spoiling that Arya/Cersei won't meet. Personally, I don't think killing Cersei was ever on the table for Arya. I never saw crossing Cersei (or The Mountain) off her list as a possibility. Those deaths are for someone else.
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TheMadQueen
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 28, 2017 20:51:44 GMT -5
There's one thing that just came into my mind right now. Did Bryan Cogman essentially give away that Arya isn't going to kill Cersei in EW? In EW, Cogman said that he and D&D had to cut certain character interactions out because there was simply no way that those characters could be in a room together without killing each other". The only two characters that really fit this bill is Arya and Cersei IMO. Its a pretty easy guess too, since pretty much all the Good Guys team up this season. And Cersei meets with all her other antagonists in the Dragonpit scene and no one gets killed. It can't be Cersei/Sansa either because Cogman was referring to characters who've never properly conversed before. And Sansa/Cersei know each other well and had plenty of conversations. So now I wonder if in the very first outlines of Season 7 if Arya was originally supposed to make a quick-stop at KL before going to Winterfell. But D&D and Cogman just could not think of a single way to have Arya/Cersei interact without Arya killing Cersei so they decided to scrap it and come up with a way in which its believable that Arya doesn't go to KL after massacring the Freys. More importantly if Cogman was referring to Arya/Cersei then it also means that Cersei is one name that Arya won't be crossing off her list it seems. good. I hate the idea of Arya killing Cersei lol.
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belle
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Post by belle on May 28, 2017 20:54:38 GMT -5
There's one thing that just came into my mind right now. Did Bryan Cogman essentially give away that Arya isn't going to kill Cersei in EW? In EW, Cogman said that he and D&D had to cut certain character interactions out because there was simply no way that those characters could be in a room together without killing each other". The only two characters that really fit this bill is Arya and Cersei IMO. Its a pretty easy guess too, since pretty much all the Good Guys team up this season. And Cersei meets with all her other antagonists in the Dragonpit scene and no one gets killed. It can't be Cersei/Sansa either because Cogman was referring to characters who've never properly conversed before. And Sansa/Cersei know each other well and had plenty of conversations. So now I wonder if in the very first outlines of Season 7 if Arya was originally supposed to make a quick-stop at KL before going to Winterfell. But D&D and Cogman just could not think of a single way to have Arya/Cersei interact without Arya killing Cersei so they decided to scrap it and come up with a way in which its believable that Arya doesn't go to KL after massacring the Freys. More importantly if Cogman was referring to Arya/Cersei then it also means that Cersei is one name that Arya won't be crossing off her list it seems. good. I hate the idea of Arya killing Cersei lol. same. i'm sick of arya being reduced to revenge. and i don't want to cersei's death to be compared to D-list losers like walder frey and meryn trant lol
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