konradsmith
Investigative Reporter
@konradsmith
Posts: 5,588
Likes: 10,429
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 1 Time Winner
#005f04
8
0
1
Oct 20, 2022 4:05:45 GMT -5
10,429
konradsmith
5,588
Jun 21, 2016 15:45:28 GMT -5
June 2016
konradsmith
1 Time Winner
|
Post by konradsmith on Aug 15, 2017 5:33:33 GMT -5
I would have rewritten half of S4's scripts. With this line let me clarify that as much as I defend and enjoy GoT, I'd rewrite every goddamn line in the show. And in most things. I seldom bring up my quibbles with the dialogue because it would take me into very stringent, snobby and thus alienating territory. But I'd edit the fuck out of the dialogue. And, in the case of the books, the prose. But then there are very few shows in which I love the dialogue and even fewer books in which I at all respect the prose. But such is life.
|
|
breakfest
Moondancer
@breakfest
Posts: 1,142
Likes: 1,943
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 1 Time Winner
inherit
33
0
Apr 25, 2022 9:38:18 GMT -5
1,943
breakfest
1,142
Jun 27, 2016 7:44:40 GMT -5
June 2016
breakfest
1 Time Winner
|
Post by breakfest on Aug 15, 2017 5:44:23 GMT -5
Also I'm not sure there's even a marked difference to the last few seasons in terms of great character moments. There might be fewer, but the one's we've had have been stronger.
Tyrion's had a ton of great moments where last year he was relegated to some fairly aimless character scenes in Meereen. Arya interacting with Sansa has been great (I know a few people weren't so keen on this last episode). Jaime's having his strongest overall season in years, probably since season 3. We've had relatively lengthy Jon/Dany interactions. And whilst secondary characters have had the short shrift somewhat, we all knew that had to be the case coming into the endgame. Regardless of 7 episodes, or 10 episodes. The factions are fairly clearly defined, and all working within the same central story.
Not having a series of disparate story threads with loose connective tissue basically demands this shorter episode count. Especially if we want The Spoils of War and Wight Huntâ„¢. Big players colliding and all that.
|
|
breakfest
Moondancer
@breakfest
Posts: 1,142
Likes: 1,943
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 1 Time Winner
inherit
33
0
Apr 25, 2022 9:38:18 GMT -5
1,943
breakfest
1,142
Jun 27, 2016 7:44:40 GMT -5
June 2016
breakfest
1 Time Winner
|
Post by breakfest on Aug 15, 2017 5:49:31 GMT -5
I would have rewritten half of S4's scripts. With this line let me clarify that as much as I defend and enjoy GoT, I'd rewrite every goddamn line in the show. And in most things. I seldom bring up my quibbles with the dialogue because it would take me into very stringent, snobby and thus alienating territory. But I'd edit the fuck out of the dialogue. And, in the case of the books, the prose. But then there are very few shows in which I love the dialogue and even fewer books in which I at all respect the prose. But such is life. Haha yeah I bet all of us like to think we could do better with certain aspects of the writing. It's the nature of being overanalytical fucks with certain aspirations. For example I'd scrap every line that had any pretensions to being meta because this is a delicate fantasy world goddammit. None of this still rowing bollocks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
11
0
Apr 26, 2024 20:58:27 GMT -5
Deleted
0
Apr 26, 2024 20:58:27 GMT -5
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 6:13:47 GMT -5
Also I'm not sure there's even a marked difference to the last few seasons in terms of great character moments. There might be fewer, but the one's we've had have been stronger. Tyrion's had a ton of great moments where last year he was relegated to some fairly aimless character scenes in Meereen. Arya interacting with Sansa has been great (I know a few people weren't so keen on this last episode). Jaime's having his strongest overall season in years, probably since season 3. We've had relatively lengthy Jon/Dany interactions. And whilst secondary characters have had the short shrift somewhat, we all knew that had to be the case coming into the endgame. Regardless of 7 episodes, or 10 episodes. The factions are fairly clearly defined, and all working within the same central story. Not having a series of disparate story threads with loose connective tissue basically demands this shorter episode count. Especially if we want The Spoils of War and Wight Huntâ„¢. Big players colliding and all that. So much this. Sometimes we get caught up with the negative things and the things that are missing that we start to overlook the great things that are actually there.
|
|
nikma
Syrax
@nikma
Posts: 2,190
Likes: 1,533
inherit
117
0
Aug 23, 2022 7:27:26 GMT -5
1,533
nikma
2,190
Feb 22, 2017 18:41:08 GMT -5
February 2017
nikma
|
Post by nikma on Aug 15, 2017 6:59:16 GMT -5
The only thing that really pisses me off is the rushed character interactions. We had Tyrion, Jaime and Bronn in the same room and Tyrion's entire conversation with Jaime was offscreen, and not a single word was exchanged between Tyrion and Bronn. We could've had a fantastic 10 min long scene between the three of them, but no let's put aside the very thing that made GoT so great for the sake of moving the plot forward. What a waste. Same thing with Jon, Jorah and Gendry, but not as bad as that one. They must've spent at least a week on the sea travelling to the Wall, plenty of oportunities for some interactions. Gendry had so much to talk to Jon about Arya and Jon had a lot to discuss with Jorah about Jeor, Lyanna and his sword. Hopefully we're getting something next episode, but they just spent several days together without having a single conversation. I'm okay with ignoring travel scenes between characters that are familiar with each other, but they shouldn't have done that when it's a bunch of people who never interacted before travelling together. A year ago, when we got the news, I loathed this fucking decision of making the final two seasons so much shorter, and now I hate it even more, absolutely terrible decision. We could have easily had this season properly spread out through ten episodes and most of its problems would've gone away. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving this season thus far, but the character development this year has been really weak, it's been put aside to make room for the plot to move forward. That's the main reason why this season won't top season 4 as my favorite, no matter how good the next two episodes turn out to be, and it's all because of D&D's decision to wrap it up as fast as possible, just as I feared. You are completely ignoring that it take them longer to shoot this season than any other before. 10 episodes would probably mean no season at all this year.
|
|
nikma
Syrax
@nikma
Posts: 2,190
Likes: 1,533
inherit
117
0
Aug 23, 2022 7:27:26 GMT -5
1,533
nikma
2,190
Feb 22, 2017 18:41:08 GMT -5
February 2017
nikma
|
Post by nikma on Aug 15, 2017 7:10:46 GMT -5
Next episode is 70 minutes long. There will be many conversations between those characters beyond the Wall. We saw some of that in promo with Beric and Jon.
I meam I get what some people want, but even in the past not every relationship was explored to the full extent.
I think people are overlooking how much history between characters was brought up. Like Jorah and Tyrion slave times, Davos' son's death, Jon's relationship with LC Mormont, Gendry and BWB and many other things.
|
|
sercreighton
Silverwing
@sercreighton
Posts: 2,465
Likes: 2,439
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 3 Time Nominee
inherit
35
0
Sept 24, 2019 3:37:33 GMT -5
2,439
sercreighton
2,465
Jun 28, 2016 17:04:35 GMT -5
June 2016
sercreighton
3 Time Nominee
|
Post by sercreighton on Aug 15, 2017 7:11:21 GMT -5
The only thing that really pisses me off is the rushed character interactions. We had Tyrion, Jaime and Bronn in the same room and Tyrion's entire conversation with Jaime was offscreen, and not a single word was exchanged between Tyrion and Bronn. We could've had a fantastic 10 min long scene between the three of them, but no let's put aside the very thing that made GoT so great for the sake of moving the plot forward. What a waste. Same thing with Jon, Jorah and Gendry, but not as bad as that one. They must've spent at least a week on the sea travelling to the Wall, plenty of oportunities for some interactions. Gendry had so much to talk to Jon about Arya and Jon had a lot to discuss with Jorah about Jeor, Lyanna and his sword. Hopefully we're getting something next episode, but they just spent several days together without having a single conversation. I'm okay with ignoring travel scenes between characters that are familiar with each other, but they shouldn't have done that when it's a bunch of people who never interacted before travelling together. A year ago, when we got the news, I loathed this fucking decision of making the final two seasons so much shorter, and now I hate it even more, absolutely terrible decision. We could have easily had this season properly spread out through ten episodes and most of its problems would've gone away. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving this season thus far, but the character development this year has been really weak, it's been put aside to make room for the plot to move forward. That's the main reason why this season won't top season 4 as my favorite, no matter how good the next two episodes turn out to be, and it's all because of D&D's decision to wrap it up as fast as possible, just as I feared. Well I don't think they will be running in the snow for the remainder of the series so I am sure we get more interactions. It's quality not quantity. I have waited for Dany and Jon to meet for a very long time. Would I like more screen time for them? Sure, am I happy with what I got? Yes. i sure at some point Bronn and Tyrion and Jaime will talk again.
|
|
nikma
Syrax
@nikma
Posts: 2,190
Likes: 1,533
inherit
117
0
Aug 23, 2022 7:27:26 GMT -5
1,533
nikma
2,190
Feb 22, 2017 18:41:08 GMT -5
February 2017
nikma
|
Post by nikma on Aug 15, 2017 7:14:32 GMT -5
Dany and Jon's first scene was 10 minutes long. The longest dialogue scene in the history of the show. And they've got 3-4 minutes more in that same episode.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
29
0
Apr 26, 2024 20:58:27 GMT -5
Deleted
0
Apr 26, 2024 20:58:27 GMT -5
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 7:27:48 GMT -5
Next episode is 70 minutes long. There will be many conversations between those characters beyond the Wall. We saw some of that in promo with Beric and Jon. I meam I get what some people want, but even in the past not every relationship was explored to the full extent. I think people are overlooking how much history between characters was brought up. Like Jorah and Tyrion slave times, Davos' son's death, Jon's relationship with LC Mormont, Gendry and BWB and many other things. I see your point, but a lot of those examples you give were just one line. Like Davos and Tyrion's talk about his son. It's literally just "Last time I was here you killed my son with wildfire." And that's it. Just bringing something up for one line doesn't amount to a meaningful character interaction like we'd gotten in previous seasons - a better example is the scene between Tyrion and Varys, where Varys recounts his days with the Mad King and relates it to Dany. Now that was a great scene. It's not an issue that I'm hugely bothered by personally; when it was announced the season would be shorter I accepted that smaller, character-focused scenes would be somewhat sacrificed. It's a shame, but I've made my peace with it.
|
|
nikma
Syrax
@nikma
Posts: 2,190
Likes: 1,533
inherit
117
0
Aug 23, 2022 7:27:26 GMT -5
1,533
nikma
2,190
Feb 22, 2017 18:41:08 GMT -5
February 2017
nikma
|
Post by nikma on Aug 15, 2017 7:47:59 GMT -5
Well I don't really see what they could talk about Davos'son that much.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
11
0
Apr 26, 2024 20:58:27 GMT -5
Deleted
0
Apr 26, 2024 20:58:27 GMT -5
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 7:59:01 GMT -5
To be fair, I think the Davos line had more meaning to it than it seems at first glance. That line was there for a specific reason, considering it occurred in the same episode in which Tyrion questions Dany burning people. I don't want to open up that discussion again. I just wanna point out that the purpose of Davos' line was to remind us of what Tyrion did during Blackwater and to draw parallels between him and Dany and to make us question these things. It's thematically connected to the rest even though the line itself doesn't really stand out as such when we don't pay close attention to it. However, I didn't need there to be a deeper conversation between Davos and Tyrion about this issue. It's much more subtle this way. Dany killed a father and a son at the beginning of the episode. Davos reminds the audience that Tyrion also killed a son and almost killed the father too.
Of course the show itself doesn't do the connecting. That's the audience's job.
|
|
inherit
65
0
May 21, 2019 16:28:16 GMT -5
80
UnmaskedLurker
78
Jul 12, 2016 7:54:27 GMT -5
July 2016
unmaskedlurker
|
Post by UnmaskedLurker on Aug 15, 2017 8:02:30 GMT -5
Don't look if you don't want to know:
Hmm I think that season 8 theory is unlikely tbh. I just don't see it going down that way You are probably correct. My speculations are rarely correct. Certain clues lead to certain conclusions -- so I am still convinced that Jaime is the valonqar -- and at least in the books, he kills Cersei. Beyond that basic conclusion (and the show might change how Cersei dies), any version of events I invent in my head are highly likely to be completely wrong. But it can still be fun to speculate from time to time.
|
|
sercreighton
Silverwing
@sercreighton
Posts: 2,465
Likes: 2,439
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 3 Time Nominee
inherit
35
0
Sept 24, 2019 3:37:33 GMT -5
2,439
sercreighton
2,465
Jun 28, 2016 17:04:35 GMT -5
June 2016
sercreighton
3 Time Nominee
|
Post by sercreighton on Aug 15, 2017 8:09:27 GMT -5
With this line let me clarify that as much as I defend and enjoy GoT, I'd rewrite every goddamn line in the show. And in most things. I seldom bring up my quibbles with the dialogue because it would take me into very stringent, snobby and thus alienating territory. But I'd edit the fuck out of the dialogue. And, in the case of the books, the prose. But then there are very few shows in which I love the dialogue and even fewer books in which I at all respect the prose. But such is life. Haha yeah I bet all of us like to think we could do better with certain aspects of the writing. It's the nature of being overanalytical fucks with certain aspirations. For example I'd scrap every line that had any pretensions to being meta because this is a delicate fantasy world goddammit. None of this still rowing bollocks. Aaah aspirations of being a YouTube critic how far society has evolved. We all got an arm chair QB in us. But unless people want to see Charlie Day as Jon Snow and Dany DeVito as Tyrion Lannister, in something that looks a hell of a lt like Nightman vs. Dayman with Swords, or the hound riding around on a Giant chicken, or Stark Trek game of thrones in space, then I highly advise against it. But I swear to all of you I could pull it off. You know happens when fans get big budgets, and write their own scripts you get the D&D movie, look it up, and World of warcrap. Oh and the Rowing joke played. I'm sorry but it played. "Now if you had said " Greyworm make Joke" same page.
|
|
sercreighton
Silverwing
@sercreighton
Posts: 2,465
Likes: 2,439
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 3 Time Nominee
inherit
35
0
Sept 24, 2019 3:37:33 GMT -5
2,439
sercreighton
2,465
Jun 28, 2016 17:04:35 GMT -5
June 2016
sercreighton
3 Time Nominee
|
Post by sercreighton on Aug 15, 2017 8:11:28 GMT -5
Dany and Jon's first scene was 10 minutes long. The longest dialogue scene in the history of the show. And they've got 3-4 minutes more in that same episode. It's one scene how many scenes has Bronn had with Tyrion and Jaime? 10 whole minutes after you know 2 decades.
|
|
Envie
Vhagar
"If I look back I am lost."
@envie
Posts: 5,270
Likes: 8,484
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 1 Time Winner
inherit
4
0
Jul 4, 2019 18:53:32 GMT -5
8,484
Envie
"If I look back I am lost."
5,270
Jun 21, 2016 11:00:44 GMT -5
June 2016
envie
1 Time Winner
|
Post by Envie on Aug 15, 2017 8:11:46 GMT -5
To be fair, I think the Davos line had more meaning to it than it seems at first glance. That line was there for a specific reason, considering it occurred in the same episode in which Tyrion questions Dany burning people. I don't want to open up that discussion again. I just wanna point out that the purpose of Davos' line was to remind us of what Tyrion did during Blackwater and to draw parallels between him and Dany and to make us question these things. It's thematically connected to the rest even though the line itself doesn't really stand out as such when we don't pay closer attention to it. However, I didn't need there to be a deeper conversation between Davos and Tyrion about this issue. It's much more subtle this way. Dany killed a father and a son at the beginning of the episode. Davos reminds the audience that Tyrion also killed a son and almost killed the father too. Of course the show itself doesn't do the connecting. That's the audience's job. This is one of the reasons I like watching reaction videos on youtube. I avoid the more showy/dramatic ones like The Normies - they don't have much substance. I try to watch the people who are actually intelligent viewers and have good points to make as they're watching. The Burlington Bar crowd is the only silly one I indulge in just because I like the bar atmosphere and they're funny, the Sean guy leading that is funny and quite well spoken in his after-show reviews. But there are some couples and singles that watch and react who are much like many of us here - they are thoughtful, they pick up on the clues, and they generally have good guesses of what's going to happen without having followed the leaked information. Blind Wave is a good group who analyzes everything very carefully. Whenever points are made like what Davos said to Tyrion, these guys get it and they remark about it. Watching the reactors comment and 'get it' these past two seasons (and many of them are not book readers) gives me hope that the show's writers are in fact doing a good job of conveying the underlying points that are being made here. People generally got the connection that war is hell and depending on which side of that war you're on, it looks terrible what the other side is doing. We, the audience, get the luxury of seeing both sides of that.
|
|