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Post by daeronthegood on Apr 17, 2019 13:21:25 GMT -5
Which then begs the question why everyone is clamoring for Dany to step aside, since rules are being made on the fly. They don't like her. Too bad. She's got the forces.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2019 13:25:34 GMT -5
Too bad. She's got the forces. Is your point here that they should just suck it up because she'll kill them otherwise?
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Post by daeronthegood on Apr 17, 2019 13:35:01 GMT -5
Too bad. She's got the forces. Is your point here that they should just suck it up because she'll kill them otherwise? Your Dany hate is too funny. LOL. The point is they need her, or they're dead. Full stop. House Targaryen has to take it the IT by force, so whats your question about?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2019 13:40:23 GMT -5
Is your point here that they should just suck it up because she'll kill them otherwise? Your Dany hate is too funny. LOL. The point is they need her, or they're dead. Full stop. House Targaryen has to take it the IT by force, so whats your question about? Hun, you clearly don't know me if you think I'm a Dany hater Quite the opposite.
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Post by daeronthegood on Apr 17, 2019 13:43:07 GMT -5
Your Dany hate is too funny. LOL. The point is they need her, or they're dead. Full stop. House Targaryen has to take it the IT by force, so whats your question about? Hun, you clearly don't know me if you think I'm a Dany hater Quite the opposite. But your double standards are hilarious. They don't like her so she has to be step aside. I wonder if you said that about the Starks when they were trying to take back WF and most of the Northern lords either ignored them or told them to F off. They won militarily, killed who those who opposed them, pardoned those who bent the knee and imposed their will.
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Post by sercreighton on Apr 17, 2019 13:47:06 GMT -5
I get this, but would you trust a pretty emotional teenager with a secret that if discovered, could get your entire family killed? I'm sure Robert turning a blind eye to the murder of Rhaegar's children left no doubt in Ned's mind what Robert would do to a child that, in his mind, was forced on Lyanna by an evil prince. i didn't say jon needed to know his targ paternity as a kid, but knowing his mother died and she loved him wouldn't have given that away. that wasn't ned protecting jon, it was him not wanting to discuss the subject at all bc it was a very painful memory for him. i do agree that he needed to keep r+l a secret from everyone but i was responding to the idea that ned's honor meant public honesty when his choices regarding both jon's parentage and joffrey's show differently. honor is not always the same as morality and ned chose love/morals over honor several times. raising his nephew as his son while lying to his wife and pretending to be absolutely loyal to robert was morally right but dishonorable by the rules of his society. That goes back to when the show was following the books. Jon's fake mom is supposed to be alive. Actually there is a nice little interwoven web of lies designed to mislead people. The show started that Subplot in season 1. Then it dropped it at some point. It wasn't really a great idea to go to the tower of Joy come back with a baby, tell everyone that Lyanna died and that the babies mother also happened to die. So web of lies that was supported by house Dayne. Who would imagine house Dayne would lie for Ned Stark after killing Arthur Dayne. Ned also told Jon in season one that he would tell him about his mother the next time the met. Then he died, so he couldn't.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2019 13:47:46 GMT -5
Hun, you clearly don't know me if you think I'm a Dany hater Quite the opposite. But your double standards are hilarious. They don't like her so she has to be step aside. I wonder if you said that about the Starks when they were trying to take back WF and most of the Northern lords either ignored them or told them to F off. They won militarily, killed who those who opposed them, pardoned those who bent the knee and imposed their will. Wut. I'm talking about the perspective of the characters. Not my own. Anyway, this is boring so I'll leave it here. Have a great day.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2019 14:25:53 GMT -5
I'm not going to lie, but I find this a really odd complaint. As I said several times before: Bran is proof enough. If they're really desperate, they can wheel out Howland Reed, but honestly, who cares? Most of the people who need convincing (ie those who will rebuild Westeros) are already at Winterfell and the rest aren't going to argue. But ultimately I don't think it matters because I think neither Jon or Dany will rule at the end so the matter of his legitimacy or his claim is pretty moot. Just because you say it, doesn't make it true. There is a reason why there are no living witnesses to a wedding, in a medieval society that abhors secrets in matrimonial matters. Taking it on the word of the claimant's brother is a joke. Not to mention the diary opens up the opportunity for every entrepreneurial bastard known and unknown to forge a document and claim legitimacy. This isn't something I'm making up its consistent with the world ASOIF, a world that has sharp and very bold lines regarding bastardy and legitimacy. You can't waive that away with Bran-who has every reason to lie, and diary. And Howland Reed was not at Rhaegar and Lyanna wedding, unless your saying otherwise. Well, Bran is demigod basically and he can spell out anything about their past life, something he's no privy to. That alone tells you he knows things and he simply is to be trusted. No reason to lie for him as he is weird and really doesn't give a damn about anything other than The Night King and AotD. On top of it, just because you want footage or witness doesn't make it less of a truth. This s fantasy world where shadow babies are born, dragons are flying, undead zombies are coming. It just adds up to what some might have thought before about Ned. People have been questioning it like Stannis, Robert and some others. Hell, Jon must have Valyrian blood to ride a dragon which is another telling sign. Put it all together, and you have a pretty solid case. Not like it matters as claim went outta window a long time ago. Who has military power can claim it.
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Apr 17, 2019 14:58:03 GMT -5
Personally I would argue that consent given in a desperate act to keep someone onside is not valid consent. These issues are way more about the power dynamic than they are the words yes or no. Yeah I actually agree with you. There’s no doubt Euron is a creep. And I don’t think it’s as simple as she could have just had the mountain kill him. But I also think Cersei is just used to this type of dynamic with men. Not dragging on Jaime, but the Jaime/Cersei dynamic is kinda like this too. He has to “persuade” her to sleep with him most of the time. The difference is that Cersei is actually into Jaime obviously. yeah, the fact that jaime is the only man she actually liked having sex with makes it sad that this is the only way she knows to get men to do what she wants. it's not like she enjoys using sex to manipulate men, she just doesn't know any better way when she's desperate.
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Post by sercreighton on Apr 17, 2019 15:38:06 GMT -5
Yeah I actually agree with you. There’s no doubt Euron is a creep. And I don’t think it’s as simple as she could have just had the mountain kill him. But I also think Cersei is just used to this type of dynamic with men. Not dragging on Jaime, but the Jaime/Cersei dynamic is kinda like this too. He has to “persuade” her to sleep with him most of the time. The difference is that Cersei is actually into Jaime obviously. yeah, the fact that jaime is the only man she actually liked having sex with makes it sad that this is the only way she knows to get men to do what she wants. it's not like she enjoys using sex to manipulate men, she just doesn't know any better way when she's desperate. Euron was actually the one that added sex and a baby and marriage to the deal. That's what he wanted for his help. Her options were either no or yes. And she was backed into the yes corner. What she did in the books was sexual manipulation, here its basically just part of a deal she was offered. She had her alright let's get this over with moment, and is repulsed by him and the position she is in. Not all that different from Robert, which I think was why it was brought up. She didn't seduce him or anything like that.
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Post by sercreighton on Apr 17, 2019 15:43:39 GMT -5
Hey you know when Jon pulled out Longclaw for Arya everyone saw Arya after she put Needle away look at Longclaw right? Then look at Jon then back at Longclaw, then back to Jon and smirk, and then Jon pulled out Longclaw cause she was indicating she really wanted to see it. You know how those two are about swords and shit.
Anyway I only brought it up because I have seen some weird comments about the scene and sexism, and obnoxious, ignorant, male privilege, and all sorts of stuff.
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Post by daeronthegood on Apr 17, 2019 16:22:16 GMT -5
Just because you say it, doesn't make it true. There is a reason why there are no living witnesses to a wedding, in a medieval society that abhors secrets in matrimonial matters. Taking it on the word of the claimant's brother is a joke. Not to mention the diary opens up the opportunity for every entrepreneurial bastard known and unknown to forge a document and claim legitimacy. This isn't something I'm making up its consistent with the world ASOIF, a world that has sharp and very bold lines regarding bastardy and legitimacy. You can't waive that away with Bran-who has every reason to lie, and diary. And Howland Reed was not at Rhaegar and Lyanna wedding, unless your saying otherwise. Well, Bran is demigod basically and he can spell out anything about their past life, something he's no privy to. That alone tells you he knows things and he simply is to be trusted. No reason to lie for him as he is weird and really doesn't give a damn about anything other than The Night King and AotD. On top of it, just because you want footage or witness doesn't make it less of a truth. This s fantasy world where shadow babies are born, dragons are flying, undead zombies are coming. It just adds up to what some might have thought before about Ned. People have been questioning it like Stannis, Robert and some others. Hell, Jon must have Valyrian blood to ride a dragon which is another telling sign. Put it all together, and you have a pretty solid case. Not like it matters as claim went outta window a long time ago. Who has military power can claim it. A solid case that he's Rhaegar's bastard, which is possible considering the prevailing truth in Westeros is that he raped Lyanna to death. But born of a legitimate marriage? Is Bran going to do his magic trick in every hearth and hovel in Westeros? The whole thing seems shaky at best. But I do agree with you, there is no claim, its about who can take it with might.
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Post by daeronthegood on Apr 17, 2019 16:23:30 GMT -5
Hey you know when Jon pulled out Longclaw for Arya everyone saw Arya after she put Needle away look at Longclaw right? Then look at Jon then back at Longclaw, then back to Jon and smirk, and then Jon pulled out Longclaw cause she was indicating she really wanted to see it. You know how those two are about swords and shit. Anyway I only brought it up because I have seen some weird comments about the scene and sexism, and obnoxious, ignorant, male privilege, and all sorts of stuff. I'm afraid to ask what the scene has to do with sexism and other ills.
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Apr 17, 2019 17:08:22 GMT -5
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Post by sercreighton on Apr 17, 2019 17:32:59 GMT -5
Hey you know when Jon pulled out Longclaw for Arya everyone saw Arya after she put Needle away look at Longclaw right? Then look at Jon then back at Longclaw, then back to Jon and smirk, and then Jon pulled out Longclaw cause she was indicating she really wanted to see it. You know how those two are about swords and shit. Anyway I only brought it up because I have seen some weird comments about the scene and sexism, and obnoxious, ignorant, male privilege, and all sorts of stuff. I'm afraid to ask what the scene has to do with sexism and other ills. Her sword is little and weak his is large and unbreakable. He was putting her down by pulling it out. There has been some goofy shit like that in some of the YouTube reviews. I was kind of surprised I thought the scene was pretty obvious. I found a lot of reviews where they just couldn't figure out why he pulled it out as well. Just a couple of cleaners checking out eachothers equipment.
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