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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 0:35:59 GMT -5
I loved the Sansa/Theon scene. No romance in my opinion. Just shared emotions resulting from a horrifying experience between two people who consider each other family. He's been accepted back by the Starks (probably not Arya) so his time is probably up. I think there will be less conflict between Jon and Darnerys than it appears. The writers like to make us think one thing, but it end up something else. I believe they will come to terms during this battle and Jon will step aside for her to have the throne...if there is an Iron Throne in the end. Had that same feeling about Theon and Sansa. They have more in common than they have with other characters and they choose to spend their last moment with each other. Jon was never in line in his own view, to begin with. Him stepping aside is given but given what Sam said in 8x01 about 'if Daenerys is willing to give up her crown for her people' as Jon did. They're playing into this a lot now which makes me think when it's all said and done, neither Jon or Daenerys will rule in the current fashion as single person ruling. Break the wheel and all that.
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Post by konradsmith on Apr 23, 2019 0:37:42 GMT -5
So the Night King wants Bran. To destroy the world, you need to destroy the memory of it. Ok. Oh wow the Night King in the Goswood is gonna be such a good visual. I loved this little twist. Memory is particularly dear to humans. It resonates so much more than the Night King simply hating all life. It goes much deeper and it is specifically human. In some strange way the Night King may want to erase the memory of his own creation/existence. I just realized that Sam's point about memory is a direct reference to what Maester Ebrose told him about the role of the Citadel in ep. 701. Except that Bran is a more objective version of what the Maesters see their order as being.
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Post by Diablotion on Apr 23, 2019 0:40:03 GMT -5
How do you guys feel about Jon and Dany's lovestory? I can't help but feel like it's too fast paced and thus it leaves me feeling a bit odd. Both of them are so out of character and desperately in love only in a matter of weeks. It feels so fabricated. The scene between Dany and Sansa was the only bad scene in this episode in my opinion.
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Post by alcasinoroyale on Apr 23, 2019 1:08:41 GMT -5
How do you guys feel about Jon and Dany's lovestory? I can't help but feel like it's too fast paced and thus it leaves me feeling a bit odd. Both of them are so out of character and desperately in love only in a matter of weeks. It feels so fabricated. The scene between Dany and Sansa was the only bad scene in this episode in my opinion. My biggest critique is that there wasn't enough time to develop their relationship and this could be for a variety of reasons (fewer episodes, Kit and Emilia's chemistry, etc) but it's not really a typical love story given they are aunt and nephew. However, I don't think their meeting at Dragonstone or them becoming allies was forced. It made sense that Jon went there to secure her help and that Dany goes north to save them from the NK. But I think it was always going to be controversial in the fandom with some loving it and others hating it, even if they are Targaryens. I'm not the biggest fan of it, but I could see how D&D and George set up the pieces through a visual and thematic perspective.
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Post by Diablotion on Apr 23, 2019 1:18:21 GMT -5
How do you guys feel about Jon and Dany's lovestory? I can't help but feel like it's too fast paced and thus it leaves me feeling a bit odd. Both of them are so out of character and desperately in love only in a matter of weeks. It feels so fabricated. The scene between Dany and Sansa was the only bad scene in this episode in my opinion. My biggest critique is that there wasn't enough time to develop their relationship and this could be for a variety of reasons (fewer episodes, Kit and Emilia's chemistry, etc) but it's not really a typical love story given they are aunt and nephew. However, I don't think their meeting at Dragonstone or them becoming allies was forced. It made sense that Jon went there to secure her help and that Dany goes north to save them from the NK. But I think it was always going to be controversial in the fandom with some loving it and others hating it, even if they are Targaryens. I'm not the biggest fan of it, but I could see how D&D and George set up the pieces through a visual and thematic perspective. I couldn't agree more. There is loads of potential in this, but it would need a lot more time. The political parts (Jon going to Dragonstone etc.) make perfect sense. But Dany went North because of love? Silly.
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on Apr 23, 2019 1:23:59 GMT -5
I loved this little twist. Memory is particularly dear to humans. It resonates so much more than the Night King simply hating all life. It goes much deeper and it is specifically human. In some strange way the Night King may want to erase the memory of his own creation/existence. I just realized that Sam's point about memory is a direct reference to what Maester Ebrose told him about the role of the Citadel in ep. 701. Except that Bran is a more objective version of what the Maesters see their order as being. Bran is a one man library but he's also the only one who can get in and he's seems to not be all that interested in communicating. He hasn't even been tracking the NK since he came south of the wall.
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Post by sercreighton on Apr 23, 2019 1:51:40 GMT -5
My biggest critique is that there wasn't enough time to develop their relationship and this could be for a variety of reasons (fewer episodes, Kit and Emilia's chemistry, etc) but it's not really a typical love story given they are aunt and nephew. However, I don't think their meeting at Dragonstone or them becoming allies was forced. It made sense that Jon went there to secure her help and that Dany goes north to save them from the NK. But I think it was always going to be controversial in the fandom with some loving it and others hating it, even if they are Targaryens. I'm not the biggest fan of it, but I could see how D&D and George set up the pieces through a visual and thematic perspective. I couldn't agree more. There is loads of potential in this, but it would need a lot more time. The political parts (Jon going to Dragonstone etc.) make perfect sense. But Dany went North because of love? Silly. Time wise it's been months they have known eachother. It's a tv show it can't draw it out as much as books can. However nobody says boo when a movie does it in 90 minutes. Titanic, what was that like 5 days? Grease, fell in love over the summer off screen. personally I usually here I love you within six weeks, and I hate you within 7 weeks. Young love usually happens pretty quick, I don't think anyone would say anything if they weren't related, I think it's always in the back of people's minds so they look at with an overly critical eye. Because that's really the issue. I think Kit and Emilia are uncomfortable with it but mostly because they are close friends and his wife is her best friend. In real life they have great chemistry You watch Grease, and you believe it, and there is singing and Dancing. Now imagine Danny and Sandy are brother and sister. Man you are going to critique the shit out of the movie. Instead of Summer Lovin' you get Sister Lovin' To make it worse they just tossed in big Monkey wrench. They also took the wrong approach to the Whole new World Dragon ride. Which I am still pissed about, but mostly because years ago I wrote a comic paraody about called Burn the world. I feel I have been ripped off, I want a writing credit and a producing credit. They can keep the money, but I should be allowed to do commentary on the DVD's. But I digress, there is a reason for the cousin lovin'. It's all about the human heart in conflict with itself. They love eachother but related. Jon has to figure out who he is, Dany has to figure out her place, she had her place for so long and know there is doubt. Same for Jon. There is a lot going on and it should be interesting to watch the resolution. Tell me do you think the Rheagar and Lyanna romance is pure Bullshit. They knew eachother for like a day. Then seperated for like a month or two. Then vanished to get married. People are like it's so beautiful she was like twelve and he was in his twenties and married. So romantic.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Apr 23, 2019 1:56:10 GMT -5
How do you guys feel about Jon and Dany's lovestory? I can't help but feel like it's too fast paced and thus it leaves me feeling a bit odd. Both of them are so out of character and desperately in love only in a matter of weeks. It feels so fabricated. The scene between Dany and Sansa was the only bad scene in this episode in my opinion. Imo they're better when they're at odds with each other. Love their meeting in 703 and now this latest interaction in 802. As for the falling in love timeline, I don't think it was that rushed. Robb-Talisa got like 10 episodes (and the show had tons of storylines back then) and even that felt too long. Jon-Ygritte remains the most organic love story of the show imo (as in, it was actually compelling to watch them fall in love), possibly because of some amazing Rose Leslie acting. And again, that only went on for roughly 15 episodes.
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Post by konradsmith on Apr 23, 2019 2:19:08 GMT -5
How do you guys feel about Jon and Dany's lovestory? I can't help but feel like it's too fast paced and thus it leaves me feeling a bit odd. Both of them are so out of character and desperately in love only in a matter of weeks. It feels so fabricated. The scene between Dany and Sansa was the only bad scene in this episode in my opinion. Imo they're better when they're at odds with each other. Love their meeting in 703 and now this latest interaction in 802. As for the falling in love timeline, I don't think it was that rushed. Robb-Talisa got like 10 episodes (and the show had tons of storylines back then) and even that felt too long. Jon-Ygritte remains the most organic love story of the show imo (as in, it was actually compelling to watch them fall in love), possibly because of some amazing Rose Leslie acting. And again, that only went on for roughly 15 episodes. IIRC it was calculated that between eps. 206 and 305 (from Jon and Ygritte's meeting to their consummation) there was less screentime offered between them than there was for Jon and Dany in just their first few s7 eps. together. So whatever it is, it's not a question of screentime, because I'm sure by the end of s8 Jonerys will have shared a good deal more time than Jon and Ygritte. I think that because of GrrM's use of false protagonists early on, people think him less predictable than his overall storytelling really is. And thus assume that endgame theories that many assume to be obvious will not be so because that's not how the story seemed to work early on. But by this point it's pretty clear that Jon and Dany's relationship is central to the story, no matter how many people on the internet figured it out years in advance. That won't cause GrrM to reverse his plotting or for D and D to change the outline he gave them. That much said, I don't think the dynamics between them will resolve as expected. Davos saying they should rule together IMO makes it more likely they won't do any such thing. I think they'll reconcile more fully after the 803 battle but in the end will live on Dragonstone or in Pentos or even just by that waterfall rather than accepting the burdens of rule. Their real purpose was the war for survival not the political aftermath. And if they both live, they'll want to do so having shed the responsibilities that all their lives prior they sought or thought they deserved. Which as far as I know is an outcome never seen in a Disney movie. Particularly given the incest component. Incidentally my favourite movie of all time in Fantasia. So folks using the "Disney" insult should rewatch that film and remember what that studio was capable of back in the day.
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Post by sercreighton on Apr 23, 2019 2:56:54 GMT -5
Who said anything about Disney insults?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 3:02:09 GMT -5
My favourite part of the episode. Welch is incredible. I had not heard of Florence Welch before, but I'm definitely a fan now! How??
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Post by konradsmith on Apr 23, 2019 3:14:10 GMT -5
Who said anything about Disney insults? I'm conflating threads. It's the whiskey's fault.
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Post by mandzipop on Apr 23, 2019 5:09:37 GMT -5
The relationship isn’t rushed but it feels it. There weren’t enough lingering stares or proper flirting before. One minute they were political the next they were in love. With Jon and Ygritte it felt organic and natural. This feels forced. I need more angst between them to make it feel believable. So I’m glad for this slight discord between them. I’m going to compare to The Vampire Diaries. I wasn’t a fan of Stefan and Elena because it happened too fast. I much preferred her with Damon as I enjoyed the build up better. I’m enjoying Jamie and Brienne because it feels natural and organic.
Admittedly I’m one to talk. I’d known my boyfriend 4 days before we started a relationship.
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Post by nikma on Apr 23, 2019 5:22:01 GMT -5
I think the only difference between Dany-Daario or Dany-Drogo or Jon-Ygritte or Robb-Talisa, Sam-Gilly... and this relationship between Dany and Jon is that people care more about it and they analyze it much more.
In reallity love can't be rushed IMO. People in real life can fall in love very very fast. Or it can take years.
I mean from their first private scene in 703 you can feel that there is something there. And even more in 704.
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Post by moiaf on Apr 23, 2019 6:42:25 GMT -5
How do you guys feel about Jon and Dany's lovestory? I can't help but feel like it's too fast paced and thus it leaves me feeling a bit odd. Both of them are so out of character and desperately in love only in a matter of weeks. It feels so fabricated. The scene between Dany and Sansa was the only bad scene in this episode in my opinion. There's a whole thread discussing their relationship. While it might not be everyone's cup of tea, I love it and am quite invested in it and so are many people. I think it's just a matter of preference.
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