8x05 General Discussion: Post-Show

I think this is the part that's breaking my heart and why I'm still struggling to explain myself correctly. Whether or not Daenerys did in fact 'go mad' (and what does that mean, exactly... insanity forever or just temporary?) doesn't really matter now. People make snap decisions to lash out and kill others every day in real life - and whether they intended to or not, or whether or not it was premeditated or not ... it still gets a murder or manslaughter criminal charge against them and there's no coming back from that.

Dany has made calculated decisions to kill her enemies. Many times. But she has also listened to her counselors (Tyrion, Ser Jorah, Missandei, Ser Barristan) many times in the past as well. The problem is this. She was left alone. Jon even said so ... "She shouldn't be alone" ... Why wasn't Tyrion or Varys by her side in her time of grief and need? Oh right, they were busy plotting and betraying her. (Tyrion didn't want to betray her, but let's face it, he told Varys before he even considered telling Dany or Jon)

In her time of greatest need, Dany was utterly alone. She gave Missandei's collar to Grey Worm and he threw it in the fire. This only furthered Dany's conviction that all was lost and if Missandei had to die, at least let her death not be in vain. Missandei wanted Daenerys to burn them all. And so she did. This was pure vengeance. I don't think it was "madness" ... I'm sorry but even people with inherited insanity don't do so with a snap decision like that. It builds over time (which btw is how her Father went out... over many years).

I see the path they took in writing it this way, but I disagree that the writing was just there on the wall all along. It wasn't. They showed Daenerys progressing through her story arc over years and years of trying to lead in Essos. What was the point of Essos if she just throws all that learning aside the minute she gets to Westeros?

No. Daenerys did not 'snap' because she's insane. She broke down because she was grieving and those closest to her let her down and she felt utterly alone and in despair. Every word she told Jon was true. The people won't love her there like they love him, they never will. Varys betrayed her and was even trying to poison her ffs. This, after pledging to her side and going to Dorne to proclaim "Fire and Blood" to Ellaria to get vengeance on the Lannisters which is truthfully all the Martells cared about. So now here's Dany ready to go fire and blood and Varys is questioning her mindset? What a complete asshole.

The entire pile of sad events leading up to Daenerys choosing to torch the city was pretty terrible. I don't think it was any surprise she broke ... but it did all come on very suddenly and was, for me, just heartbreaking to watch her murder people she would never have considered hurting before - especially children. She was, at that moment, utterly alone in the world and without a reason to care and nothing to lose - she had already lost so much. Losing Jon's love... the real love they had (not that of a subject to his queen) was definitely a catalyst at the very end of a long line of unfortunate blows to Dany.

I'm dead.

I didn't watch Lost so I can't comment, but I do think the final season will get a bit better with age. I personally believe a large part of the negativity that it has been getting is due to people just not liking the direction things have gone. That's a combination of the sheer scale of the story, but also and I think most importantly, because of the weight of expectations. For lots of people, this is 20 years in the making and I think it would be hard not to be disappointed after all that thinking time if it doesn't go quite how you hoped. Maybe once people are distanced from those expectations/are over the whiplash, they will view it a little more positively.

Or maybe people will look back thinking the entire series was trash LOL.

Honestly for a minute there I was kinda expecting Cersei to flee the Red Keep   I knew Jaime was a dead man walking, but wasn't sure about her. And I remember Gwen Christie saying some of the bad guys don't get any kind of comeuppance, so I thought it could mean her. Alas...

I'm really happy with Jaime and Cersei's ending. I didn't know what to expect really. All I knew is that I didn't want Jaime to strangle his pregnant, defeated, hopelessly lost sister-lover, and I'm glad it didn't happen (now that would have ruined his character). This was just the two of them at their most human and also cut off from everyone and everything else. It all just clicked for me.

i read someone say they were disappointed that cersei cried when faced with certain death, which took me by surprise. she is inherently selfish and values herself and her status above all else, so when it's clear that she's about to lose her life and her throne...of course she's gonna be devastated. i guess people wanted her to go out like a badass, which i did, too, but i think dying in an absolute hysterical panic as her entire life metaphorically and literally crashes and burns around her was very fitting. 

this whole thing was just margaery 2.0. she thought a rival queen had come to take her throne, she antagonized this queen and her family, and then it blew up in her face. now cersei came out of the margaery/faith mess relatively okay in the end, but this time, it was her final mistake. 

i haven't had the heart to rewatch yet, but i think i'm gonna do that later tonight. 

and fittingly her death mirrored marg's, both clutching their brother, knowing they're doomed, right before the building is destroyed by the rival queen.