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Post by moiaf on Apr 19, 2017 13:37:54 GMT -5
The Others have turned into something far different from the original global warming theme they seemed to have going on. Now we know that 1) they were once men, 2) they have incredibly long-term memory, 3) they are highly intelligent, 4) they are sort of omniscient (they can somehow get into the weirwood net and all that), 5) they are not blind killing machines: they choose who to kill.Since they are essentially frozen, semi-immortal human beings I wouldn't rule out some kind of understanding, communication or pact to take place in season 8. I'm not really convinced they want to exterminate all life, either. Well, we know that they aren't going to talk, D&D have already told us that. They've also refereed to them as the embodiment of death itself.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 13:46:36 GMT -5
The Others have turned into something far different from the original global warming theme they seemed to have going on. Now we know that 1) they were once men, 2) they have incredibly long-term memory, 3) they are highly intelligent, 4) they are sort of omniscient (they can somehow get into the weirwood net and all that), 5) they are not blind killing machines: they choose who to kill. Since they are essentially frozen, semi-immortal human beings I wouldn't rule out some kind of understanding, communication or pact to take place in season 8. I'm not really convinced they want to exterminate all life, either. It has been my theory for a long time that the WW problem will be solved by Jon becoming a new Night King. First there will be a battle, of course.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Apr 19, 2017 13:47:08 GMT -5
The Others have turned into something far different from the original global warming theme they seemed to have going on. Now we know that 1) they were once men, 2) they have incredibly long-term memory, 3) they are highly intelligent, 4) they are sort of omniscient (they can somehow get into the weirwood net and all that), 5) they are not blind killing machines: they choose who to kill.Since they are essentially frozen, semi-immortal human beings I wouldn't rule out some kind of understanding, communication or pact to take place in season 8. I'm not really convinced they want to exterminate all life, either. Well, we know that they aren't going to talk, D&D have already told us that. They've also refereed to them as the embodiment of death itself. They may embody death for all our characters but it doesn't mean that's what they really are. They didn't kill the ranger from season 1, or Sam in season 3, for a reason. And they're great with children (edit: just babies!). So they're not blind killing machines. If they were so committed to their No-Life cause they ought to lead by example and kill themselves. IMO there's something more going on.
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moiaf
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Post by moiaf on Apr 19, 2017 13:56:39 GMT -5
The Others have turned into something far different from the original global warming theme they seemed to have going on. Now we know that 1) they were once men, 2) they have incredibly long-term memory, 3) they are highly intelligent, 4) they are sort of omniscient (they can somehow get into the weirwood net and all that), 5) they are not blind killing machines: they choose who to kill. Since they are essentially frozen, semi-immortal human beings I wouldn't rule out some kind of understanding, communication or pact to take place in season 8. I'm not really convinced they want to exterminate all life, either. It has been my theory for a long time that the WW problem will be solved by Jon becoming a new Night King. First there will be a battle, of course. I don't see why. The Others are an abomination, they are not a natural creature of the Planetos, they were created with the distinct purpose of killing the First Men. In fact, their continued existence has probably created the unbalance in the climate of the Planetos, which is probably the cause of the inability for the Planetos to progress beyond the middle ages. They seem to be stuck in a cycle, which probably began when he Others were created. It's time to break that cycle. Well, we know that they aren't going to talk, D&D have already told us that. They've also refereed to them as the embodiment of death itself. They may embody death for all our characters but it doesn't mean that's what they really are. They didn't kill the ranger from season 1, or Sam in season 3, for a reason. And they're great with children (edit: just babies!). So they're not blind killing machines. If they were so committed to their No-Life cause they ought to lead by example and kill themselves. IMO there's something more going on. Maybe they didn't kill them because they weren't of First Men blood and the Others were created to kill the First Men. The biggest problem with this is that there is no Night's King in the book series and we aren't very likely to see one: ETA: Even if the Other's weren't to kill all life the weather pattern that comes along with them would take care of those they do not kill. The complete icing over of the Planetos will make it almost impossible for life to continue on. After a time it will be impossible for those who survive to find food and therefore if they don't kill you their eternal winter will kill you.
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Post by mattpeto on Apr 19, 2017 14:16:37 GMT -5
It has been my theory for a long time that the WW problem will be solved by Jon becoming a new Night King. First there will be a battle, of course. I don't see why. The Others are an abomination, they are not a natural creature of the Planetos, they were created with the distinct purpose of killing the First Men. In fact, their continued existence has probably created the unbalance in the climate of the Planetos, which is probably the cause of the inability for the Planetos to progress beyond the middle ages. They seem to be stuck in a cycle, which probably began when he Others were created. It's time to break that cycle. They may embody death for all our characters but it doesn't mean that's what they really are. They didn't kill the ranger from season 1, or Sam in season 3, for a reason. And they're great with children (edit: just babies!). So they're not blind killing machines. If they were so committed to their No-Life cause they ought to lead by example and kill themselves. IMO there's something more going on. Maybe they didn't kill them because they weren't of First Men blood and the Others were created to kill the First Men. The biggest problem with this is that there is no Night's King in the book series and we aren't very likely to see one: So is it just the Others, Westeros is going to get tangled with in TWOW/ADOS? What about the great Other, that name is not allowed to be spoken?
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Post by moiaf on Apr 19, 2017 14:19:34 GMT -5
I don't see why. The Others are an abomination, they are not a natural creature of the Planetos, they were created with the distinct purpose of killing the First Men. In fact, their continued existence has probably created the unbalance in the climate of the Planetos, which is probably the cause of the inability for the Planetos to progress beyond the middle ages. They seem to be stuck in a cycle, which probably began when he Others were created. It's time to break that cycle. Maybe they didn't kill them because they weren't of First Men blood and the Others were created to kill the First Men. The biggest problem with this is that there is no Night's King in the book series and we aren't very likely to see one: So is it just the Others, Westeros is going to get tangled with in TWOW/ADOS? What about the great Other, that name is not allowed to be spoken? Mel is the only one who's mentioned the great Other as a rival the the Red God so I'm not so sure how viable that is. Especially because GRRM has also said that we won't be seeing any gods in the series.
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Post by mattpeto on Apr 19, 2017 14:31:56 GMT -5
Well technically he's not another god, since he's already been established. ASOIAF Great Other = GoT Night King That's my theory at the moment.
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Post by King Tommen on Apr 19, 2017 15:28:15 GMT -5
I think The Great Other is meant to be a godlike worship entity without any kind of physical manifestation much like The Red God or The Drowned God. They're just magical things in the sky.
And I think D&D have already established that they decided to give the WW's a leader because it was just easier in a visual medium to portray this to the audience especially in a group that doesn't talk and that is surrounded by nameless zombie-like hordes. You need the enemy to have a face, it's just easier storytelling. Martin barely even has this group appear in his story so he may have different ideas about how they need to be represented.
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Post by TheMadQueen on Apr 19, 2017 17:12:08 GMT -5
I saw the first White Walker being used as a weapon but eventually just going out of control and attacking its maker and creating an army.
We definitely need more info on that.
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Apr 19, 2017 21:23:29 GMT -5
They may embody death for all our characters but it doesn't mean that's what they really are. They didn't kill the ranger from season 1, or Sam in season 3, for a reason. And they're great with children (edit: just babies!). So they're not blind killing machines. If they were so committed to their No-Life cause they ought to lead by example and kill themselves. IMO there's something more going on. Maybe they didn't kill them because they weren't of First Men blood and the Others were created to kill the First Men. i assume it was the same reason the thenns spared olly, to let other humans know they're coming. they're kinda dragging ass getting to the wall, but they are not hiding their approach. the night king enjoyed taunting jon. we know they can live with humans like crasters acting as breeders for them, but that's still a subservient role.
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Post by archanabrownwalker on Apr 19, 2017 23:06:18 GMT -5
I saw the first White Walker being used as a weapon but eventually just going out of control and attacking its maker and creating an army. We definitely need more info on that. With only 13 episodes remaining, show will hopefully at least gloss over their perspective also. I think COTF intended to destroy WW after the First Men were driven out of Westeros. WW realized this and retaliated. So from their point of view, everyone who is not them is their enemy and needs to be eradicated. This still doesn't explain why they were attacking now. What has changed recently, as in last few years, that made them active again after such a long time? It would be too much of a co-incidence if The Long Night v2 is due just when the seven kingdoms are at their most vulnerable. During the Targ dynasty or even during Robert's reign, the seven kingdoms would have put up a cohesive and collaborated resistance if Long Night had started. But now almost every region in Westeros is on its own. So maybe WW have some kind of liaison south of the Wall?
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Post by archanabrownwalker on Apr 19, 2017 23:46:15 GMT -5
It has been my theory for a long time that the WW problem will be solved by Jon becoming a new Night King. First there will be a battle, of course. Sounds outlandish, doesn't it? No. It is not outlandish. What we know so far about The Night's King in the books, - Probably a Stark
- Brother to the King in the North
- Lord Commander of the Night's Watch
- Fell in a love with a woman from beyond The Wall
- Killed by his NW bros
......and Jon so far, - A Stark
- Brother to the King in the North
- Lord Commander of the Night's Watch
- Fell in a love with a woman from beyond The Wall
- Killed by his NW bros
GRRM has confirmed (by confirmed, i mean strongly implied. That's how he rolls) that The Night's King is not an immortal being. The Night's King what we hear about from Old Nan is not alive anymore. Jon becoming the new Night's King and brokering a peace deal between WW and the seven kingdoms would make sense. Jon's arc in ADOS ending with him leading his WW army back to the Land of Always Winter would fit in the bittersweet ending that GRRM has promised us.
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Post by Chris on Apr 20, 2017 3:01:52 GMT -5
It has been my theory for a long time that the WW problem will be solved by Jon becoming a new Night King. First there will be a battle, of course. Sounds outlandish, doesn't it? No. It is not outlandish. What we know so far about The Night's King in the books, - Probably a Stark
- Brother to the King in the North
- Lord Commander of the Night's Watch
- Fell in a love with a woman from beyond The Wall
- Killed by his NW bros
......and Jon so far, - A Stark
- Brother to the King in the North
- Lord Commander of the Night's Watch
- Fell in a love with a woman from beyond The Wall
- Killed by his NW bros
GRRM has confirmed (by confirmed, i mean strongly implied. That's how he rolls) that The Night's King is not an immortal being. The Night's King what we hear about from Old Nan is not alive anymore. Jon becoming the new Night's King and brokering a peace deal between WW and the seven kingdoms would make sense. Jon's arc in ADOS ending with him leading his WW army back to the Land of Always Winter would fit in the bittersweet ending that GRRM has promised us. You have some great ideas But I should say that I expect GRRM go for a cliche ending for Jon and make him the regular king instead, like Aragorn. I just had a discussion about cliche endings and expectations, I would love an unusual and non-tropey ending like Jon becoming the new Night King for example, but I think what GRRM means by bittersweet is more like Dany dying after giving birth to Jon's baby and Jon becoming the king. I would definitely prefer an ending like Jon sacrificing himself and becoming the NK though, but I doubt it, especially after that discussion about cliches
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2017 6:48:44 GMT -5
It has been my theory for a long time that the WW problem will be solved by Jon becoming a new Night King. First there will be a battle, of course. Sounds outlandish, doesn't it? No. It is not outlandish. What we know so far about The Night's King in the books, - Probably a Stark
- Brother to the King in the North
- Lord Commander of the Night's Watch
- Fell in a love with a woman from beyond The Wall
- Killed by his NW bros
......and Jon so far, - A Stark
- Brother to the King in the North
- Lord Commander of the Night's Watch
- Fell in a love with a woman from beyond The Wall
- Killed by his NW bros
GRRM has confirmed (by confirmed, i mean strongly implied. That's how he rolls) that The Night's King is not an immortal being. The Night's King what we hear about from Old Nan is not alive anymore. Jon becoming the new Night's King and brokering a peace deal between WW and the seven kingdoms would make sense. Jon's arc in ADOS ending with him leading his WW army back to the Land of Always Winter would fit in the bittersweet ending that GRRM has promised us. Exactly. Becoming an immortal monster to protect the Seven Kingdoms would be Jon's sacrifice and very bittersweet. The WW just being this magical force who invades and then gets destroyed in a war doesn't sound like GRRM. The whole story so far has been about the horrors of war, which makes me think that the solution to the WW problem won't just be typical Good vs Evil battle.
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Post by moiaf on Apr 20, 2017 7:15:25 GMT -5
Maybe they didn't kill them because they weren't of First Men blood and the Others were created to kill the First Men. i assume it was the same reason the thenns spared olly, to let other humans know they're coming. they're kinda dragging ass getting to the wall, but they are not hiding their approach. the night king enjoyed taunting jon. we know they can live with humans like crasters acting as breeders for them, but that's still a subservient role. I was half kidding. I think the taunting part is really clear in the Prologue of AGOT. They are toying and playing with Waymar Royce, they know that his weapon is useless against them and yet they let him think he can try and face them.
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