Nezzer
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Post by Nezzer on May 13, 2019 16:54:04 GMT -5
One bowl we all missed out on was the Danebowl. NCW killing Pilou, his old actor buddy who used to babysit his kids while he was still the more famous Danish actor. I don't know if NCW suggested Pilou for the role or if it was all just coincidental but it's funny to me that the two have known each another for so long within such a small country's theater and film community and that the ending designated for them brought them back together thusly. And they actually called it this in the Game Revealed! I never thought I would see Cleganebowl be referenced by HBO by name. The hype truly knew no bounds.
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Post by Singer of Death on May 13, 2019 17:00:55 GMT -5
I read some posts that what Dany did is justifiable from a medieval and ancient warfare perspective. Similarly, Genghis Khan went to kill a million and half the population in Khwarazm all because their rulers killed his ambassadors.
I wouldn't mind the direction they are going to take with Dany going "mad". If this is gonna be the same in GRRM's ending, fine. After all, I could see this played out in the book given there are some anti-war stances. Obviously all the moments where she burns people throughout the series foreshadow to this, but they could have build it up more in how she's go for this decision on burning KL, particularly the moment where she realizes they are not gonna love her at the end. That bell moment is incredibly forced and rushed.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 18:11:30 GMT -5
I'm wondering how many cast members' final scenes were from 805?
Lena mentioned her final scene was running down some stairs, so I'm guessing it was her sneaking by the Hound at the start of Cleganebowl.
Maisie said she was alone in her final scene so maybe the horse?
Nikolaj's finale scene was probably Jaime's death.
Peter's could have been from 805 too.
I don't think Emilia's was from 805 as she mentioned her final scene was a shot of her hand.
And obvs neither Sophie or Isaac were in the episode but I'm 99.999999% sure both their final scenes are from the finale.
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alcasinoroyale
King of Winter
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Post by alcasinoroyale on May 13, 2019 18:21:47 GMT -5
I'm wondering how many cast members' final scenes were from 805? Lena mentioned her final scene was running down some stairs, so I'm guessing it was her sneaking by the Hound at the start of Cleganebowl. Maisie said she was alone in her final scene so maybe the horse? Nikolaj's finale scene was probably Jaime's death. Peter's could have been from 805 too. I don't think Emilia's was from 805 as she mentioned her final scene was a shot of her hand. And obvs neither Sophie or Isaac were in the episode but I'm 99.999999% sure both their final scenes are from the finale. Pilou's final scene was his fight with Jaime because they filmed that at Cushendun caves in June while the rest of his scenes for the season were shot earlier. Rory and Hafþór's final scenes could have been with Lena on the stairs or just Cleganebowl in general. This looks to be that set from the Paint Hall with the Red Keep in ruins. In the preview for 806, we see Tyrion walking through the KL ruins, so I think that would be the final scene Peter shot. The structural changes to the set over the course of filming might confirm that since Peter's scenes outside the KL walls were shot at the end of April and it wasn't until June where the set was completely in ruins.
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alcasinoroyale
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Post by alcasinoroyale on May 13, 2019 18:44:00 GMT -5
This forum is great. The best GoT forum. There are people who don't like the writing, but they are normal humans lol Yeah, reading through this thread, a lot of conversations we're having here are a lot calmer and more mature than other parts of the fandom. Even though some don't like the writing, they still appreciate other elements that the show offers such as the cinematography, acting, and music or maybe could see how certain character arcs made sense. We've seen throughout the series that every character has a variety of different morals, strengths, and flaws. In Dany's case, she's lost the trust of those closest to her or they have been killed and I think that any rational thinking she had was gone by the time she left Dragonstone to attack KL. stannisforking299al made a really good point that maybe this is all Dany breaking the wheel and same with TheMadQueen who said that power ultimately consumes people. Particularly Cersei because everything she valued fell on top of her. King's Landing has always been the symbol of the Great Game, the plotting and the scheming, the rise and fall of major houses, and to leave the city in ruins, while through the most horrifying actions possible given the number of civilian casualties, almost opens the door for a new age of Westeros if Dany ends up dying in the end. Back in S4, Tywin told Tommen that wisdom makes a good King and that the wisest of them continue to listen to their counselors in order to learn and gain insight into the complexities of ruling. However, you must also understand the people you are trying to win the respect of. If there's no reasonable connection made with them, then only fear remains and a ruler cannot simply act on that, they would face resistance. It's not just that power consumes people, it's that the game never truly ends, only the players and their agendas do, which resembles our own world history.
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TheMadQueen
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 13, 2019 19:25:57 GMT -5
in reference to the question of if Dany is being harsh now to be peaceful later, I’m reminded of something Margaery said about the Targaryens of history in season 3.
“Sometimes severity is the price we pay for greatness.”
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freypies
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Post by freypies on May 13, 2019 22:38:19 GMT -5
I also love the civility on this board. Internet culture in general is really tiring with memes, hyperbole, and almost a hivemind mindset when it comes to forming opinions on certain things. Reddit, with its upvote, downvote system is the worst of the bunch. Quality posts that may invite one to think differently don't get exposure often because of the lack of upvotes from those who think otherwise.
Anyways, back to the episode - I loved so many aspects of the second half of the episode, but I wish they had filmed the beginning of the Euron/Jaime encounter differently. It looked so whacky to have Euron be the only one to conveniently wash ashore at the spot where Jaime was.
Also, episode 4 perhaps should have been two or three episodes in length as well, just to ease people into the turning of Daenerys. As it was, I think the reception would have been better if people saw a more gradual shift in her demeanor.
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konradsmith
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Post by konradsmith on May 13, 2019 22:46:28 GMT -5
Anyways, back to the episode - I loved so many aspects of the second half of the episode, but I wish they had filmed the beginning of the Euron/Jaime encounter differently. It looked so whacky to have Euron be the only one to conveniently wash ashore at the spot where Jaime was. Maybe he was trying to get into the Red Keep too?
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Post by freypies on May 13, 2019 22:50:19 GMT -5
Anyways, back to the episode - I loved so many aspects of the second half of the episode, but I wish they had filmed the beginning of the Euron/Jaime encounter differently. It looked so whacky to have Euron be the only one to conveniently wash ashore at the spot where Jaime was. Maybe he was trying to get into the Red Keep too? Makes sense. I hadn't thought of that. Anyways, it's a minor complain. These conveniences have been there from the very beginning. Much of the series would not have happened if many things didn't many coincidences did not transpire to set things off - Bran climbing the exact tower at the exact time Jaime and Cersei were going at it, Tyrion and Catelyn ending up in the same inn at the same time, all the armies arriving just in time to save the day, whenever they are needed, etc.
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Post by TheArchmaester on May 14, 2019 0:41:14 GMT -5
This forum is great. The best GoT forum. There are people who don't like the writing, but they are normal humans lol Yeah, reading through this thread, a lot of conversations we're having here are a lot calmer and more mature than other parts of the fandom. Even though some don't like the writing, they still appreciate other elements that the show offers such as the cinematography, acting, and music or maybe could see how certain character arcs made sense. We've seen throughout the series that every character has a variety of different morals, strengths, and flaws. In Dany's case, she's lost the trust of those closest to her or they have been killed and I think that any rational thinking she had was gone by the time she left Dragonstone to attack KL. stannisforking299al made a really good point that maybe this is all Dany breaking the wheel and same with TheMadQueen who said that power ultimately consumes people. Particularly Cersei because everything she valued fell on top of her. King's Landing has always been the symbol of the Great Game, the plotting and the scheming, the rise and fall of major houses, and to leave the city in ruins, while through the most horrifying actions possible given the number of civilian casualties, almost opens the door for a new age of Westeros if Dany ends up dying in the end. Back in S4, Tywin told Tommen that wisdom makes a good King and that the wisest of them continue to listen to their counselors in order to learn and gain insight into the complexities of ruling. However, you must also understand the people you are trying to win the respect of. If there's no reasonable connection made with them, then only fear remains and a ruler cannot simply act on that, they would face resistance. It's not just that power consumes people, it's that the game never truly ends, only the players and their agendas do, which resembles our own world history. Indeed, I really enjoy the conversations these last 2 episodes have generated! Lots of complaints of a disconnect between 'normal Dany' and 'holocaust-mode Dany' but I kinda think that's the whole point. She's the one person in this story who wields absolute, unlimited power through which she is able to channel her absolute, unlimited rage. The whole scenario doesn't seem 'rational' to us because this is not a normal human situation to be in. Dragons have been compared to nuclear weapons for a reason. It's easier to dehumanize people when you're dropping bombs from above. Dany isn't seeing what we're seeing: dead children, melting flesh everywhere. You can kill them all as if they were nothing and find a moral justification later (or before: indeed, Dany gives us her 'moral justification' earlier in this very episode). As Emilia said, it's partly a statement about power. As for the criticism of the season being rushed, I get it but I think they could have given us 5 extra episodes of Dany all dishevelled in Dragonstone and it would only have obscured the point. Her actions this episode must be jarring and irrational and impossible to justify (while at the same time making sense for the character on a primal level). You can't rationalize acts of unspeakable cruelty. The Red Wedding didn't need rationalization and neither does this. That's what makes it frightening imo. Anyone is capable of doing these inhuman things in the right (or in this case, wrong) circumstances.
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on May 14, 2019 1:37:25 GMT -5
Jon could barely beat Karl fookin Tanner. GW would mop the floor with him. He lost that fight, one of the wives saved him. He was on the ground, Flat on his back, disarmed, one arm trapped and about to die. Kinda sad he got his ass hand to him by the nerdy guy from Pacific rim. So nerdy that Charlie Day is the butch one in the pairing.
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on May 14, 2019 2:36:23 GMT -5
They didn't tell us why she decided to start murdering indiscriminately, but if the explanation really is just ... well, she's mad now, that would be pretty fucking lame, in my opinion. I think you're starting to open up what's really eating at me with this for Daenerys. I know a lot of our group here say it's been foreshadowed for years and Dany's always had this tendency lurking there. Ok, sure, say what you want about her having a tyrannical streak, but indiscriminately killing innocent people in the streets has never been her way and suddenly deciding to 'snap' when the city surrenders just isn't adding up for a lot of people and I'm not the only one. She "just went mad" doesn't really cut it and isn't deserved. Not even her Father was that bad, considering his insanity grew over many years of paranoia. Again, this just felt rushed and I know the show needed to end but their choice to split up 7 and 8 with such a long period of time between them didn't help the story solidify at all. I still stand by my ranking of it and love/hate with it but honestly, for me, last night's episode was the finale and nothing that comes after this will even matter. It's over. That's cause a lot of people have no idea what they are talking about. No offense but you can cherry pick anything out of context and say look and see. It didn't add up for professional critics either, the episode got hammered with 49 on rotten. I take it back, it's not that they have no idea what they are talking about, some don't but I think it's a case of seeing what you want to see. In some cases they don't want to admit it was a waste of 8 years, in other cases they want to see Dany get trashed and In other cases they watched the show for different reasons. Some like the spectical aspect, and some always wanted a more soap opera feel. Though Dany's turn was closer to a WWE heel turn. In your case you read the books and have an added perspective and insight. D&D claimed a few years ago she isn't made or insane. Well that was a lie or they changed direction. But ut what you are watching is not signature Martin. This isn't grey, there was nothing grey about it. Some characters are less grey than others but Dany has always been a grey character. Tywin was somewhat grey but also he was an asshole and he was an asshole the day we met him. The NK was not grey just some purely evil force that was pointless. The Mountain was not grey but he never was. Dany was grey. Ramsey was not grey he was disturbed and that's how he was when you met him. Martin deliberatly made the slavers over the top evil, they eat puppies and murder, torture and rape children for fun. Dany in the books tried to help her cruel, abusive, and spineless brother. She tried to save his life, she wept for him. Mirri killed her child and husband, she had her reasons but so did Dany. It wasn't like gosh that's not right. The Warlocks and Undying got burned but only in self defense as they were trying to kill her. Varys betrays Dany on the show but in the books he is not with her, he is with Aegon. He is not the gosh for Westeros guy he is playing the game and cares little about the wars and Death he is helping cause and sustain. He wants chaos so Aegon looks better and gets more support. So I doubt he betrays Dany and is her advisor. She has consistantly stood up for the little people, and this is completely out of character for her. Why? Shock and subversion. They wanted to make Cersei more sympathetic so she has to look way worse. They want to make it easy to kill her off weather it's Jon or Arya makes little difference, they want us to have sympathy for them not Dany. She has been through far worse and never cracked, gotten angry? Yes but that wasn't anger. She was raped and abused for months, the Dothraki hated her. Later they loved her, it took work but she did it. It's always taken a lot of effort on her part. But she never just quit and snapped. She was never brittle like this, even Martin talked about her great inner strength. They took a lot away from her and Jon this season in terms of plot to make this attempt. Kill off some advisors. And make Arya the hero of the long night. Which isn't a book thing, we don't have a NK or some insta kill. Which means you need her dragons. She never expected the people to love her right off the bat. Season 7 she says as much. Yes the northerners will always love Jon and the Dornish will love the Dornish and so on. That's normal. Another problem is is while Cersei has been in power they basically gave you zero perspective on the small folk. We don't know what they thought of her, or the sept. Nothing, then all of a sudden they want to focus on the small folk and want tons of sympathy when we haven't seen them in forever and have no insight into them except the brief Arya run, and that felt forced and contrived as fuck. The horse scene was totally over the top, and in slow motion. Good lord. D&D don't understand it, they can't write like Martin so it's never going to feel like Martin and the further they move away from the books the less it feels like what you know from years with the books. They try to compensate with flash and bang, and shock. But it's shallow and feels like we are just doing bullet points. Euron on the show was a pure D&D creation, did he feel anything like Martin? No he's aweful and shallow, and has no character development and acted as nothing more than a plot device. His last scene he looks right at the camera and says he killed Jaime Lannister. He's breaking the fourth wall. Anyway you have a right to feel as you do. We all do, but it shouldn't surprise anyone that people have a problem with this, and it's not a small minority it's big and it's loud and it's pissed. People are trying to rationalize a lot of it. Why was Euron there? It was nothing more than a contrived convienience plot. Just as a horse was there waiting for Arya. Also if Bran mentions in the last episode gosh did I forget to mention she was going to kill a bunch of people? Ooops my bad, mister all seeing my ass. That's another convienience plot.
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nikma
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Post by nikma on May 14, 2019 3:22:47 GMT -5
Yeah, professional critics...
Who write something like this:
"As neat as that was, it was still a whole lot of gross. I don't know about you, but watching people scream in agony over for 90 minutes isn't what I look for in a Sunday night. "
Most of their reviews make no sense. They just want to criticize the show at this point. It's just one big echo chamber. GoT became too popular for its own good.
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Post by nikma on May 14, 2019 3:27:05 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 3:31:37 GMT -5
LOL I literally just stumbled across these tweets while scrolling. She's getting skewered lol. I do think that's a nice illustration of the weird conflicting feelings people are having right now though. 804 ended with Dany stans wishing for her to destroy the city. Then she does in 805 and they're surprisedpikachu.jpeg lol.
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