8x05 General Discussion: Post-Show

It was just another subversion. The episode is full of them, Martin would spend books setting up a single moment like that, here they rained from e skies. Even the Arya fake out at the red wedding. He did it once not ever chapter with her in it. 

So much of the plot the last or so seasons has to do with characters being out of character. Tyrion has been a moron for years now. He has to be in order for the Dany plot to work, I can't figure out why she kept him. As soon as she finds out what he did without talking to her that should of been it. Fine don't kill him but tell him to go.

The set up the battle to make it seem like Cersei had a viable chane. Nope subverted, they got run over.

The scorpions are a major threat to the dragons. Subverted, tore them to shreds. Can I add while wasting time on idiotic plot devices like this they could of given Lena or Kit or Emilia, especially Emilia more time to sort of cross over. A couple of lines, "I wish I had never come her." "I hate this place" anything.

The GC, subverted, not only subverted but rather comedic at a time when you really shouldn't be funny.

Euron and his fleet were a great threat, look how much time they spent building Euron up as a theat to Dany. Less than a minute of screen time and the fleet is toast.

The Bells, subverted. It's not surrender its doom

Dany had her entire character subverted. Didn't even go after who she wanted too, just randomly targeting civilians. 

Arya ay going to kill Cersei. Subverted.

Arya fake cut away deaths that nobody believed for a second. I'll call it attempted subversion but after the Long Night nobody buys it.

Jaime going to Pentos with Cersei. Nobody bought it but they wanted you to think there was a chance so they could subvert it.

Euron fake death. Subverted and annoying, just go away you don't belong here.

Jaime gets caught because he forgot about his hand? Idiot plot. I did love him and Tyrion together, but how they got there, just bugs the shit out of me.

Cersei and Dany face off, she's gonna burn Cersei. Subverted death by brick.

Cersei being humanized, subversion. Felt so out of character and lame, last time she faced death she was not crying, she was sitting on the Iron throne waiting to poison Tommen and herself.

Euron on the beach, a plot of convienience for a horrible scene . Don't look at the camera ass hat.

Jaime killed by Euron, subverted, he hardly seemed injured and died by brick. What brilliance by D&D an ironic death, after all these years going in and out of buildings one finally does them in.

 It's to much bullshit for one episode. Hell its to much BS for one season. Spectical is great and all but part of my brain can't just look at this stupidity and go wow genius when it's clearly poorly done writing. And I can't forgive what they have done to Tyrion he said bells 35 times in the episode. This guy and Varys should of been wheeling and dealing with the Starks. They did nothing, he didn't even think to talk to Sansa about the issue. Nobody does or tries anything they just jump from plot point to plot point all season.

Because he never wrote the books. This was adaptation turned into original work. He never proved that it was even possible to bring this thing to satisfying conclusion. He left D&D to try to connect the dots he wasn't capable of doing while managing the biggest production in history of TV.

And he is still seen as victim of this situation. Someone who will "fix" things. Yeah, right. 

And I said he doesn't deserve to go unscarred from all of this, not that he is the only one to "blame". 

But this narrative where D&D are evil monsters, while everyone else(actors, GRRM, HBO, directors) is thir victim is absurd.

You're exaggerating massively here. No one is saying they're evil monsters. They're most likely tired of this series and want it to be over, so they rushed to a conclusion. That makes the most sense, considering they've already made the jump to Star Wars.

And you say the first part as though he's not even trying to write the books. They're massive pieces of text, with interwoven narratives all happening simultaneously. If connecting the dots seems like it takes a long time, that's because it does. The issue is, it also took D&D 2 years to turn out this, and people are understandably disappointed. If GRRM after however many years it takes, finally releases TWOW, and it sucks, people will criticise him too. Only problem is, George has a far more consistent track record for quality than D&D at this point. That said, who thinks George is a victim? The amount of money he's made from this series, not even including revenue from increased book sales and exposure is nothing to pity the man over.

He'll take as long as is needed to finish the books, and so long as they're good, who cares? This argument reads like you're trying to shift the blame, rather than admit the writing quality has declined. D&D went into this deal knowing the series was unfinished. They weren't tricked or misled. George made no promises to finish the series, he simply let them adapt his stories.

I agree with this video so much.

Well, depends on what you call rushing.. They had this amount of episodes in mind all the way back during the fifth season if I recall right. Or prior to that actually because that's when they started talking to the press about the last two seasons having less episodes. I mean if they wanted to rush this wouldn't have it been easier to just do two regular seasons and air them in the spring as usual, they would've been done a year ago? They chose to do this, they chose to spend almost an extra year making the season and that actually is the opposite of rushing.

They've made mistakes but I find it stupid that people all over the internet pretend to know how they rushed this, how they didn't care anymore and how they just destroyed everything for fun. I believe with all my heart that they set out to do the best two seasons they can and executed that the best way they could. And it didn't work out the way they thought. But people in their positions don't risk their careers and mess up a show like this because they're bored or want to move on.

Hence why I said things along the lines of "I think" and not "I know for a fact". I was under the assumption the whole point of discussing a show was to discuss these very things.

I'm talking more about the amount of content cut from the series, and the amount of subplots that weren't explored, primarily magic. I've been complaining about the pacing in this series for years. I never said they set out to ruin the show, I simply don't believe this was their best effort. Maybe people do get over emotional, but I'd say most people here react to this stuff in a fairly level headed way. If you don't feel like certain things weren't fleshed out enough that's fine. I disagree. Neither of us know for a fact, as you said.

Regardless, this isn't going to affect D&Ds career in any way. They're decorated TV royalty at this point who were behind one of the greatest phenomenons in the history of the small screen. They're made for life. Hell, they don't even need a career anymore, so I wouldn't waste any time worrying about their future if I were you.