8x05 General Discussion: Post-Show

So that was incredible, but I'm definitely coming out of it a little disorientated. I feel like with a better narrative grasp that could have come out the greatest episode of the show, but I just found a couple of things lacking. Probably stuff that's been talked about already.

The absolute scale of Daenerys' turn was jarringly communicated. This arc had been set up for sure, but Jesus Christ. I guess that was the point, but it was just so much.

And I was hoping for another dimension to Jaime and Cersei's final moments. I guess with the world ending around you there isn't much time for confrontation, but that felt a little dissatisfying to me.

Otherwise, it was a triumph.

Cersei: "I blew up the Sept of Baelor to kill my enemies."
Dany: "Hold my Starbucks cup."

I take it back, she just didn't hear the bells is all.

Unsullied here!

This episode was one of the best episodes (if not the best) in the history of GoT. There has rarely been an episode/film that has depicted more horrifically, realistically and gorgeously the true horror of war. Every scene in this episode was like a fucking painting. Most of the little moments were emotional and beautiful as well. We’ve always known dragons are the real shit, but until now I hadn’t felt, under my skin and deep in my bones, how fucking terrifying they are. The sheer awe and bone-chilling terror when they fly across the sky.

That being said: Dany’s decision to start burning innocents after the city has surrended wasn’t earned imo. I agree with the justifications people said here 100% and I'm positive this is where her arc was always leading towards, not that of a benevolent ruler (I don't think that's GRRM's style anyway), but a Mad Queen. The theme that you see sometimes in political intrigue/war stories:the ruler that comes is as bad as the ruler they’re trying to depose. We've been seeing her isolated in Westeros, with no real connections, grieving, she said she "chose fear"-- even so, for me, her decision to start burning innocents came out of the blue. Because the city had surrended. I could understand a downward spiral that might lead to this, but here, in one ep, it felt like a leap to go from "sad and pissed off" to "batshit insane and monstrous".

I love how Tyrion outright tells Varys it was him who told Dany about his treason and Varys is cool with it. Their friendship, particularly because of the chemistry between Peter and Conleth and the humour they've always brought out in one another, has made for one of the best odd couple duos in the show. Varys accepts Tyrion's betrayal of him because he himself betrayed Tyrion in revealing the information he'd given him. They both know they have different agendas and always have but they still get along so well because of how deeply they respect one another, even seconds before Varys gets flambeed. That's been constant since s2 and I love this culmination where Tyrion could've been distant and let his friend think Jon was the one who told her but he steps forwards and admits it and even holds his arm reassuringly. And Varys doesn't take it personally because he knows if things were different he might do the same. It's all in the game.

So I watched it twice, and I listened to the inside the episode.

So after the inside the episode it's pretty much a lock most of this was D&D. They say what they wanted to do why they did it and what they wanted to see and it's pretty much the typical post modern nihilism you can expect from Hollywood and war. Some stuff may be from Martin but they don't say.

Anyone saying Dany was setup to turn is full of it, they say this was caused by the loss of her advisors. Well that's all this season.

One big question I have is were Kit, Emilia and Lena not available to film much this year, cause they are not in it that much while Arya and the hound command half the episode.

Varys has been a non factor for a season and a half and now he gets lines and I just don't feel him, mostly because I know he isn't in this plot from the books.

Acting was good all around.

Direction was aweful, transitions were often just jump cuts, cgi was often choppy, there was a lot of reused footage, especially with the dragon. And the Arya cut aways yes I got it after the long night this idiot loves the cut away fake death. Oh boy lets do that with Arya 3-4 times cause that will make me really worried she would die. Don't know what it is but this director has a hard on for Arya and she felt totally out of place here which is better than Jon who was totally useless again.

I liked that the Hound finally told her about vengence. My problem is this is not setup at all. I mean somebody should of said something to her a long time ago, but he says it and suddenly she is like omg vengence is bad and runs off. Literally we get 15 minutes of her running until we get to the dumbest scene in the episode the horse. There is no real symbolism here it felt like a raw story board image. She gets on the horse and rides off complete with solo option gosh how triumphant. It's a weird shot for a survivor.

Clegane bowl was okay, once again we go for the Blade runner homage. Hated that the hound died by fire and when Dan said he knew he had to die by fire because he feared it. I was like what the fuck are you thinking it destroyed his life so now you kill him with it? Gregor sure, but the hound? Morons.

Tyrion, pretty typical stuff for him though why he is walking through a war zone during a battle is beyond me.

The epic battle did only last 7 minutes but whatever. The GC was as useless as the Iron fleet and Jesus whatever the fuck Eurons real name is that guy can't act. His fight with Jiame was pointless.

Cersei and Jaime, I called this bullshit, I siad they would try to make her sympathetic, and they went for romance and love. No she deserved it, and her death was stupid. The most defiant character in the series was a whimpering baby, happy fucking Mother's Day. She died by a falling rock, fucking as lame a death as you can ask for. Her acting was good, but the scene was pathetic. That's the 9 year payoff she gets hit by falling rocks. Not to mention the destruction of as much character development as possible.

Cersei the big bad has hardly been on the show for two seasons, and she's the big bad and Rhaegals death was going to even things up and her troops got slaughtered in minutes.

Dany, it took the mad King 15-20 years to crack, Dany's build up was less than an episode.She was the one who wanted to protect the small folk and there is zero buildup to her blaming them. D&D said she wanted to make it personal between her and Cersei. Well the red keep is right in front of her and she already won the battle, go blast it. But know Drogon spends most of the episode burning civilians and Why? Because D&D said they wanted to see death from above and show how war impacts civilians. Dany had no beef with KL she had a beef with Cersei. Yes yes, let it be fear, cause why? Jon didn't give her the D. That's really it that's the genius of D&D, Jon give me your Lovin' gasp I can't so let it be fear then. Fucking stupid and a blindly male perspective from the two hacks. I would go into there insight on War, but neither of them has ever experienced it, but if they like I can arrange to have there asses dumped in Afghanistan. Fucking shit bags' what did they say, soilders are killers it's what they do. Yep we all can't wait to get into a city and start killing civilians, thanks again Hollywood bubble.

The bells, for the love of God, how stupid can you get. Yes Tyrion I get it the bells are a plot device now stfu we all got it the first 5 times you said it.

It felt rushed, sloppy, poorly edited, under funded, and direction was all over the place. A war between two queens somehow comes back to Arya riding off on a horse. Why should it be about Cersei, Jon and Dany, let's watch Arya run for 15 fucking minutes and pretend to she might be dead like 3-4 times.Jesus Christ enough with the cut aways. It was underwhelming, at times I almost fell asleep, and you could tell they reused the same street over and over and over. Yes I get the theme vengence is bad, and civilians can get caught in the cross fire but it wasn't a cross fire they were targeted. Why? Because they think people are retarded and wouldn't understand that being bad. Instead we have to subvert Dany into super evil, and subvert poor Cersei into a sympathetic character. Look she's scared and crying and just wants her Jaime to hold her. Garbage, and it's getting blasted for it, the series has collapsed.

Enough with the subversion, they must have done it 20 times this episode. It's meaningless and over used, I would say a used. Jesus do you not know any other for of plot development or literary devices? I mean really, every other fucking scene.

Quick Arya question, why the fuck did she not use the tunnels if her and Sandor are going to kill Gregor and Cersei? They walked in the front gate. The gates where locked, they don't leave them open with a hostile army outside of them. While I can buy Arya sneaking in, The fucking Hound does not sneak, he couldn't if he tried. Jaime used the tunnels. But D&D let on to why she was there. Because the civilians and extras won't create the emotion that Arya will. Quick she's dead cut away, oh wait she's alive, let's do that a few more times. So the point of of Arya being there was to get a street level view of the chaos, because why would you use Jon? He's a fucking Targaryen he's totally connected to Dany. Jon saved one girl. Although if he used his mighty D he could of saved the whole city. He's so fucking useless these days, just stands there most of the time saying either my queen or nothing useful. What the fuck did they do to him? Long night is all about Arya, the war of the queens is about Arya. Seriously wtf is wrong with these idiots. Cersei saw her role reduced to almost nothing these last two years is the big bad. Jon is pointless, and Dany is the big bad as of 25 minutes into the episode and not in it that much. This had to be like filming conflicts or something, Jon is hardly in it and it's a battle and he's leading on the ground. It's just weird.

Oh one more thing D&D said about Dany's turn was her lack of empathy for her brothers death and while on the show that's kind of true, in the books it's total bullshit. She actually tried to save his life, offered him the dragon eggs and herself if he would just stop and she wept for weeks after his death. She did lack empathy for slavers but that's kind of a universal thing. The child murdering for sport slavers, who also crucify children, and the unsullied training along with the eating puppies and kittens, not a joke kind of points to them being not deliberately not very sympathetic. I wonder if D&D thought she should be nicer to the slavers? That's not weird at all, They are such fucking hacks.