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Post by TheMadQueen on Apr 18, 2019 18:14:57 GMT -5
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Post by TheArchmaester on Apr 18, 2019 18:24:37 GMT -5
So they are indeed mocking nature. But there's still a more specific message in there (imo), which Hill obviously can't talk about yet.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Apr 18, 2019 18:44:38 GMT -5
So they are indeed mocking nature. But there's still a more specific message in there (imo), which Hill obviously can't talk about yet. I'm inclined to think The Night King is sending a message with Ned Umber impaled in the spiral that says "They did this to me, you undo it" or something like that. There's probably a missing piece of the puzzle as to exactly how to 'undo' what the Children of The Forest did to him that started the whole mess. A pact was made on The Isle of Faces long ago. Maybe another one has to be made - but to what end, who knows.
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Post by daeronthegood on Apr 18, 2019 22:07:45 GMT -5
Sam's 'document' is a diary LOL. Maybe you're right, but the whole GOT for 7 seasons is a joke if all it takes for people to accept the legitimacy of a secret prince is a diary found by your bff and the word of your brother. That is is enough to put the crown on someone's head? Ugh, why not just invent a living witness who can swear they were there? Why compound secrecy with ridiculousness? I'm sure random wetnurse or Howland Reed who they don't know is more reliable than Sam and Bran who are their friends, family. But okay, continue to think so if you want to. Was Howland Reed or the random wet nurse at the wedding? Is that what you're saying? I'm talking about legitimacy. If you think a diary (which can forged) or Bran's word (because why would he lie for his brother) is enough to elevate someone to the Iron Throne, then whatever. I guess the GOT doesn't really mean anything.
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katjushka
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Post by katjushka on Apr 18, 2019 23:33:15 GMT -5
Well that's an odd turn of events since he went through all the trouble of taking out Balon, then the kingsmoot and drowning ritual plus refitting the entire Iron Island fleet. I mean, I get it, the Iron Throne is the BIG prize... and his conquest of Cersei is going well for him since she let him into her bed. I just thought that was a lot of effort he put into the Iron Islands to not give a shit when Yara takes it back from him. I guess he needed to be king of the Iron island to get Cersei's attention? And to have that fleet of course. It is kinda weird if he doesn't care about Yara escaping at this point but it could be he's sure he'll be on the throne soon.
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konradsmith
Investigative Reporter
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Post by konradsmith on Apr 19, 2019 0:34:59 GMT -5
Well that's an odd turn of events since he went through all the trouble of taking out Balon, then the kingsmoot and drowning ritual plus refitting the entire Iron Island fleet. I mean, I get it, the Iron Throne is the BIG prize... and his conquest of Cersei is going well for him since she let him into her bed. I just thought that was a lot of effort he put into the Iron Islands to not give a shit when Yara takes it back from him. I guess he needed to be king of the Iron island to get Cersei's attention? And to have that fleet of course. It is kinda weird if he doesn't care about Yara escaping at this point but it could be he's sure he'll be on the throne soon. He wouldn't have a shot at the Iron Throne if he were just a pirate with a single albeit dreaded ship... but being the Iron Islands' king and the fleet give him the foot in the door. Though of course in that same interview he says he'd as easily defect to Dany if he felt like it, so his plan might be more hedonistic than Machiavellian. We'll see. But as I said above, Pilou seems to enjoy trolling, so it's hard to know how much of this we should take literally.
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on Apr 19, 2019 3:21:15 GMT -5
So they are indeed mocking nature. But there's still a more specific message in there (imo), which Hill obviously can't talk about yet. I'm inclined to think The Night King is sending a message with Ned Umber impaled in the spiral that says "They did this to me, you undo it" or something like that. There's probably a missing piece of the puzzle as to exactly how to 'undo' what the Children of The Forest did to him that started the whole mess. A pact was made on The Isle of Faces long ago. Maybe another one has to be made - but to what end, who knows. The current internet theory is he wants a child, the prince that was promised, was promissed to him. Kind of like Craster gave him his sons. Not really a fan that this was a deal. Mostly because it's like okay we made a pact now 8000 years from now you get a baby. Why does he want the baby? I think Mel and Bran need to clear some shit up, plus we ain't got no baby and we are unlikely to get a birth considering nobody is showing. Also they wouldn't introduce the whole kill him and the Wights drop thing. They gave the victory condition. He very well could want a magic baby I just don't think he made a pact for it. The children used the Others more than once, they used them against the first men ending in a pact and the Andals. They children never won which isn't a great sign that they are unbeatable. They are leaning heavily towards he really hates the children and they really pissed him off. But they are dead. If he is Bran he already knows these events and could of used the red comet as a marker of where to be and killed him before they entered. He seems to have the power of the 3 eyed Raven which means maybe he was the original and as the three eyed Raven represents sort of this children hive mind he wants him dead and just sucks at killing him. He knew where the three eyed Raven was he probably should of checked out they hill for another entrance in the 8000 year window he had. He wouldn't move while the Valyrians were in power, I mean they had wizards and Valyrian steel and hundreds of dragons, they would of rolled his ass. But he was left with a hundred year window in which to rise to power. Given the rate at which he increased his army he seems to have waited for something. They were on the move pre comet so that didn't trigger them. So really it's kind of weird that they haven't given us a little more. You got Dany, a descendent of The Amathyst empress. Jon a Stark Targ who he's noticed, possible Jon and Dany baby, but why? Bran. The three eyed Raven. He sucks at killing these two. And maybe on an outside chance Cersei's baby. But again why? It's probably Bran or Dany. Dany's house of the undying vision with the baby should have some meaning. They may need to go to his old tree and burn that thing to kill him. If he hates it so much why is he hanging around it so much? One thing is certain for a pissed off Demi God seeking revenge he sure takes his sweet ass time to do shit.
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Post by atargbyanothername on Apr 19, 2019 7:46:35 GMT -5
So they are indeed mocking nature. But there's still a more specific message in there (imo), which Hill obviously can't talk about yet. I'm inclined to think The Night King is sending a message with Ned Umber impaled in the spiral that says "They did this to me, you undo it" or something like that. There's probably a missing piece of the puzzle as to exactly how to 'undo' what the Children of The Forest did to him that started the whole mess. A pact was made on The Isle of Faces long ago. Maybe another one has to be made - but to what end, who knows. There definitely has to be more to it than simply “undo this.” I mean narratively its not exactly exciting or satisfying, but even aside from that, his actions don’t make sense if that was his goal because he had the last of the Children killed. I’m very curious how this plays out
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Envie
Vhagar
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Post by Envie on Apr 19, 2019 8:55:14 GMT -5
I'm inclined to think The Night King is sending a message with Ned Umber impaled in the spiral that says "They did this to me, you undo it" or something like that. There's probably a missing piece of the puzzle as to exactly how to 'undo' what the Children of The Forest did to him that started the whole mess. A pact was made on The Isle of Faces long ago. Maybe another one has to be made - but to what end, who knows. There definitely has to be more to it than simply “undo this.” I mean narratively its not exactly exciting or satisfying, but even aside from that, his actions don’t make sense if that was his goal because he had the last of the Children killed. I’m very curious how this plays out Good point about killing off the Children of the Forest. It's not adding up no matter which theory we examine (and I'm not entirely sold on any of them). I am sure we'll find out what the message he sent in this episode meant, but we'll likely have to wait until the very end.
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charliexcx
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Post by charliexcx on Apr 19, 2019 11:02:50 GMT -5
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Maesteress
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Post by Maesteress on Apr 19, 2019 11:20:23 GMT -5
Do you levitate? lol.... Although this is why I watch episodes by myself, behind locked doors...I'd be slapping everyone making too much noise while I'm trying to concentrate and look for clues to it all.
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ladystoneboobs
Syrax
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Apr 19, 2019 13:01:24 GMT -5
I guess he needed to be king of the Iron island to get Cersei's attention? And to have that fleet of course. It is kinda weird if he doesn't care about Yara escaping at this point but it could be he's sure he'll be on the throne soon. He wouldn't have a shot at the Iron Throne if he were just a pirate with a single albeit dreaded ship... but being the Iron Islands' king and the fleet give him the foot in the door. Though of course in that same interview he says he'd as easily defect to Dany if he felt like it, so his plan might be more hedonistic than Machiavellian. We'll see. But as I said above, Pilou seems to enjoy trolling, so it's hard to know how much of this we should take literally. euron has never actually given a shit about his home, that's one of the few aspects that remain unchanged from book to show. i wouldn't call throwing balon off a bridge a lot of effort, the new fleet happened instantly, and that was always about buying a queen, not really making the iron islands great again. once he has the iron throne, he could go back and kill yara if he really wanted to.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Apr 19, 2019 15:09:08 GMT -5
Another thing I like about this episode - there seems to be a bit of a "Fall of the Idols" thing going on.
The Jon-Sam scene in the crypts (literally the hall of fallen idols); it begins with a shot of Ned's statue, the ultimate "honorable hero" archetype. And in this scene Jon finds out Ned made a dishonorable choice in favor of a moral choice (passing him off as his own son to protect him). This ties in with the Tower of Joy fight scene from s6: there was more to Ned than blind honor and duty. And I think this realization might shape Jon's character going forward.
In the same scene the greatest Living Idol is being severely questioned (Daenerys). We've had Tyrion and Varys doubt Dany before; we've never had a 100% moral character like Sam demolish Dany's character in this way. Does he go too far in his judgment? Probably, yes: the guy is sensitive as hell and has just been told news of his brother's death. But it's a huge moment anyway, and it's telling us something.
Then we have Sansa and Arya, who've become thorny heroines of their own, the latter even threatening Jon as "lovingly" as she can afford: "Don't forget (you're our family)".
There are still 5 episodes to go so there's still time to revert to a traditional fantasy editing if that's what they want, but this episode suggests a different direction which is pretty damn exciting.
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ladystoneboobs
Syrax
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Apr 19, 2019 15:30:20 GMT -5
the crypt scene was also an interesting pilot callback. again a royal with his bff in the crypts, but instead of the bff lying (the targaryens are gone, your grace), this time it's the bff revealing the truth that ned kept secret.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 15:38:25 GMT -5
The beautiful death is out. Not sure why it's covered in Karstark sigils tho - any ideas?
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